@LaurentB I am concerned that this over complicates things. sometimes redo works on a hold and sometimes it doesn’t? depending on settings?!! Imagine trying to explain that in the quickstart guide to a new user 
I would prefer to keep everything as consistent as possible.
Thanks for the feedback
Obviously this requires a bit of thinking and for example an icon on the screen showing in real-time if we are in immediacy-mode or deferment-mode could do the trick. The internal complexity has not to be exposed to the user and the quickstart guide would just mention the behavior regarding the presence or not of that icon on screen…
I don’t think it’s a bad idea, because today the behavior relies on a combination of so many things (mode/settings) that even if you know it’s not so obvious…
But honestly I won’t struggle for that, I’m fine with what we discussed previously, it was just an idea that I thought if implemented right, could even simplify the understanding from the user point of view. If you don’t, fair enough, I let you write the quickstart guide to explain the combination of settings/modes 
I have never in my life read and returned to an online forum as often and with as much interest as I have since the Aeros came out. I was ecstatic about this looper when watching the videos and immediately started sharing my excitement with friends. What this looper potentially makes possible is nothing short of game-changing to me… and that is coming from a very satisfied Boomerang III owner of 6 years!
All of that said… I have not pulled the trigger yet… and I won’t until these types of issues are fixed. I sooooo want this to work. I have never wanted a business/tech venture to be as successful as I want the Areos to be. I appreciate the work you are putting into and I look forward to all of that coming to fruition into a product that inspires the awe and confidence it deserves. I’m still waiting (and I tell my friends to wait) until the day you reach that.
I also appreciate all the hard and patient work of those like LaurentB who clearly have an interest in your success.
I have never written like this on a forum…or of any product. Guess there is a first for eveything.
Wow, you made my day (actually night here in France). And I must admit that it is a first time for me too. I never ever contributed to any forum like that before or even thought about saying thank you to a company I bought something from.
And the reason why is that, first of all I want the success of the Aeros too, because like many people here I really feel it’s a disruptive game changer, but as well because this is a place it’s possible to actually contribute, not just applause at a keynote.
I’m reaching one month with the Aeros, and honestly in the beginning I clearly thought I would return it because of so many things not really working like they should have.
One month later not everything changed of course, but things already greatly improved and more importantly I am now convinced it will go towards the right direction.
Obviously I can understand your wait-and-see approach, and hope to see all these issues fixed soon, and of course I do not forget about people expecting the long awaited MIDI implementation. Tough work ahead @DavidPackouz and all team !
Clearly, this device must quickly grow towards its expected functionality with exemplary reliability. There are too many people who doubt about the professionalism of this looper. He came out immature and now has to change that reputation by working hard.
We thoroughly appreciate the feedback, the insight, and all the support we get from our community! Thank you all for believing in what we think is the future of looping!
It seems there’s basically two kinds of Aeros users - one using quantized, click-track modes (which I think? includes Beat Buddy users), the other freeform. I think these are analogous to LaurentB’s "immediacy-mode"or “deferment-mode.” Some users may switch between the two modes - don’t know about that.
Since users appear to fall into these two categories it seems sensible to have separate sections In the quickstart guide & manual, one “For Quantized/Beat Buddy Use” & one “For Freeform Use.” Had this existed I believe I would’ve saved much time over the last month figuring things out. Such targeted instruction materials may allow you (minus programming constraints) to have actions keyed to different functions in the different modes while at the same time actually simplifying the learning curve for those like myself (& probably many others) who never intend to use quanitization or Beat Buddy. It could simplify things for quantize users too.
That leads to my last thought. It appears making a device the size of Aeros (which is great - I too don’t want to have to get another pedal to make this pedal work) be all things to all people is becoming increasingly difficult, if not impossible. A solution would be to offer two Aeros versions: 1.) Program the crap out the Aeros to make it work like a dream machine for us freeformers. Not having all those conflicting functionality/programming needs for non-freeform use allows this. 2.) Do the same for the version optimized for quantization/Beat Buddy use. Not having freeform functionality needs may allow you to add features so players not wanting Midi Maestro won’t need it. You wouldn’t need to make a new Aeros - just two separately programmed versions of the same device that would satisfy a vast range of looper enthusiasts. No one would have any reason not to buy it (except for $ of course)! I have the Aeros but am waffling around returning it because of the freeform issues. I’d buy one programmed for flawless freeform use in a heartbeat nanosecond.
Very interesting indeed.
Yet I do not see such a strict split between the 2 modes of the Aeros. It is true that those two behaviors are pretty different but they actually share a lot in common (I even already pushed for a third “hybrid mode” where you could, I think, get the best of both worlds).
I see the Aeros as a pretty versatile hardware platform, and what we can get out of it is actually to be written. I do not really see any conflicting features between the quantized mode, the freeform mode or even the potential future hybrid mode, but I understand the need for @DavidPackouz and @BrennanSingularSound to streamline the ideas so that functionalities are exposed to the user in a consistent and meaningful manner, hence sometimes some replies where they will say things like “we don’t want to do that because of quantized mode or MIDI or whatever”… where they should probably say “we can do this but we have to find a consistent way to expose it so that it remains valid/understandable across the different modes…”
As long as it is not an excuse for not implementing something necessary but only to offer the best possible user experience, I’m fine with it, and I can hear arguments.
I will probably not become a user of the quantized mode, but I could definitely become a user of the potential hybrid mode (which if you think about it is reallllly close to the quantized mode), and the idea to have an evolutive platform which enables these kind of innovations is clearly one of the key driver for me to have chosen the Aeros, and I would definitely not like a scattered ecosystem where you would have an Aeros for midi-ers, Aeros for covers, Aeros for improvisers…
Like you, I am waiting for a flawless freeform mode, and I think it’s on a good trend now. Voicing our concerns in topics like this one for example about the fact on-press events for recording actions are not negotiable make things progress in the right direction, and I think it has been heard and agreed now.
P.S. Please forgive me for shamelessly pushing for the hybrid mode 
… Hummm 
did I again ?
Hello @DavidPackouz,
@BrennanSingularSound mentioned here that the fix for the “next part” was in test (
). Does it cover the re-record flows too ?
Is there a date for a 3.0.1 (or 3.1.0 whatever…) ?
We don’t have enough buttons for all the actions we want to do quickly and/or in real-time. Probably need at least one button for a multi-use with on-release, hold, double tap, etc. In this case the mixer on-hold action which means that button cannot be used for an on-press (unless we always want to activate the on-press action before entering the mixer). So we get boxed in with things like “next part” that some people really need to be on-press.
Perhaps we can give the user another way to trigger this action with precise timing (on-press). Getting to to on-press version of “next part” will take an extra step, but once you had it ready, it would be real-time.
So here’s one way. I’m sure there are other ways/variations
(The above is similar to Hands-free song selection with @BrennanSingularSound idea to keep hold fior quick mixer acess …so we use doiuble tap).
Whatever the solution, I hope it allows the Aeros to do more in the future without repeatedly dealing with this hard issue.
This is no longer an issue, don’t worry about next part, we are working on the other cases for immediacy as well.
Another option (with added expense) is if a two (or three) button external switch could be utilized instead of an expression pedal, the undo/redo command could be routed to one of those switches and the re-record command stay at the respective on board switch. This is the way they Pigtronix’Infinity works.
If it were possible, this is a much less added expense than a midi control pedal or the Maestro pedal.
@JusDandy
The device has to be standalone for all standard flows. And record / overdub / undo / next part all those kind of things are not at all like fancy requests from outer space. So for these, there has to be no need of extra hardware and it should work flawlessly.
Obviously beyond that, and this is what is cool with the Aeros, it can be expanded with Midi devices and or expression pedal to implement complex flows or potentially as you mentioned re-route existing commands to other more-convenient-for-your-usage external device…
This has already been requested but it doesn’t look like it got a very positive reply…
This has been (tentatively) implemented in firmware 3.1.3
The 2 tested flows:
See bug report
Is this the reason when I’m in Free Form mode I can hardly EVER get my loop to start without a delay? I’m really about ready to return this thing. I want to love it so bad! All I ever do is Free Form mode and it’s just not usable.
We are working on this and it should be fixed in the next iteration, we will have news soon, thank you for your patience, freeform has been a hard nut to crack but we are so close!
It is with great pleasure, that I think this topic can be closed as implemented since the release of the 3.1.10 firmware.
If any new issue is discovered, it should be now in a new bug report.
