@XBeat Yes, we’ll still need to use the BB Manager to compile content together for a little while longer. With regards to MIDI editing, I strongly advise against using the built-in editor inside BB Manager. It is the single worst piece of software I have ever come across.
@Neil_McCann The problems associated with BB Manager will not be applicable to the new software, as it is built from the ground up on a different programming platform (Java as opposed to C++). All editing happens directly on the SD card. The project opens up in a snap and all manipulation is done immediately without having to export or sync anything afterward.
Yes, it is a solid foundation now, so any skilled developer should be able to make progress on it without causing havoc
@User_Name That is a very valid point that someone here asked as well and I have brought it up. I’ll follow up more to make sure this is properly implemented. One functionality I proposed, that I believe is badly needed for both users using 3rd party software and those who do not, are playlists. I think we’ll probably need to have a system with playlists that will function in the same way as you suggest, without being tied to folders and subfolders, but song ids.
@peteru Yes. That should not be a problem once a version is finalized, since it is built on Java which is cross-platform. I will suggest an app as well
You know?, after working with the BB Editor, learning its quirks, bugs, limitations, etc., for many years, I got to the point in which I don’t think so badly of it… It’s like that advice from Stephen’s Stills song from the 70s:
“If you can’t be with the one you love, honey, love the one you’re with”
I agree with you here @lugoluis. The editor isn’t that bad and the concept is solid. Visually it all makes sense and I’ve created many songs using it. We all know it is loaded with bugs and many of us have learned to work around them. I would love for a new version to be similar to use but with all the features it should of had and without the bugs.
How about Logic Pro X?
That’s what I use when I need fancy beats. My command of Logic is intermediate+ or advanced -
EDIT: The paragraph below is from a Sep 2019 email I sent you, as a reply to one from you, @GoranGrooves:
“Oddly enough and despite all your comments and reserves about the BB Manager editor, I find it usable and have been using it extensively to create my own beats, either from scratch or using the BB content as a start. I like its potential and having a beat editor tailored specifically for the BB is a huge help…”
I stand by what I said then and now. But that doesn’t mean we don’t need a revamped BB MIDI Editor or that I’m comparing the current BB Editor to, say, Logic Pro!
I actually am using Cubase most of the time now after being convinced of the advantages by @Phil_Flood. But for a beginner without other software to use it SHOULD be a part of the BB software and I’d be disappointed if it wasn’t incorporated again in the new version. The software should be a COMPLETE solution for the Beat Buddy.
Even if I’m using Cubase to compose most of my beats it would still be hugely beneficial to fine tune the midi in the BB Manager once I bring it across, rather than having to go back to my DAW or external MIDI editor to make changes then import again.
There would be many benefits to having a fully functioning editor within the Manager itself but it MUST have the features to make it usable.
So I will back up what I said, the editor was usable and the basics were there but with the bugs and lack of standard functions (copy, paste, add bars IN FRONT of existing patterns, play from a cursor position etc) it is frustratingly slow and difficult to use. But, a full functioning version SHOULD be a standard part of the Beat Buddy package.
One thing I should add here @GoranGrooves …without learning how the BB Midi Editor in the Manager works it would of been a massive and time consuming experience to learn how to program the BB in a DAW. Learning how to add bass notes, staccato bass notes and little tricks like that I learnt using the editor.
There should be enough space in the existing song format for midi Id… the later versions of the bb manager had the ability to edit and save the id, but the firmware to find the song by that id, and pull it up, was never implemented.
Sounds good Goran. I currently have a setlist of songs that I have previously edited on BB Manager. If I use the new BB Loader when it is available will it allow those previously edited songs to play? Thanks
Ok thanks, so I see. “The BB Loader will not alter your existing BB song content. Whatever is in a song, stays in the song as it is. While the software handles songs and folders (imports them, arranges them around…), it does not edit songs. I assume you are referring to certain MIDI file info that gets stripped out during parsing inside BB Manager? At the moment, we still need the BB Manager to put content together, so we are still stuck with whatever shortcomings of it are present. Once the development moves onto the next phase (song editing), we’ll be able to address all of those issues.”
Thank you. I did notice the midi id in BB Manager, which you can edit, but I have never used it. I informed the developers. We’ll have to look at the best options on how to take advantage of this. Perhaps have a function that automatically assigns midi id’s to songs in the project, to begin with. Do you recall what format they can be in and how long they can be?
I used one of the “reserved” integers, so it is a full int, which should be plenty large! It’s been a while since I’ve looked at that code, but the BBM can read and write the number… shouldn’t be too hard to make the pedal find it!
Just curious, the addition of set lists, will this have just links in the list to songs in a folder? If so will editing a song affect all lists with that song in it? That would be fantastic. At the moment when I edit a song I have to go searching every folder (which I use as set lists) to make sure that edit effects them all.
There are two things … a loader and an editor…
let them be two things. combining the two will lead to slow updates to both.
this is the situation you apperantly have now.
With the new loader coming, and new work being done potentially on an editor… I will quit hurting myself by reading the code you have posted on github.
Setlists or playlists will be references to existing songs in folders available in your project. There will be support for 17 playlists. The firmware will support the creation of playlists, adding and removing of songs, which means that you’ll be able to do those things right on your BB.
We’ve also had discussions on making everything compatible and easy to use with 3rd party apps like OnSong. More details will be available a little later down the road.
@robertg The loader is the first part of the software which is mostly completed. I will be testing the latest build shortly. The editor will be the next phase of development. There won’t be a need for much development for the loader, once the initial version is released. But, it will be fairly straightforward to update since it was built on solid ground.
@Neil_McCann and @lugoluis Since you say that the editor isn’t that bad, I am curious: have you guys actually used a pro-level midi editing software?
I’ve used Reaper, Adobe Audition and other free DAWS but have never got on with them as far as editing songs is concerned, but that’s probably because the drumsets I create don’t necessarily follow midi standards.
