Standardized "with Bass" kits -- DISCUSSION!

I would have to do the same. Not only would I have to remap my drums, but a whole lot of songs as well. But, if we can get a standard that’s better for us to share files, it will be worth it. Also, it would be good to do this going forward.
One downside to using 0-32 for the bass is that it’s really hard to hear the bass line in the original MIDI. But, I usually transpose last, so it shouldn’t be too big of a deal.

Here’s a proposed mapping. It’s pretty simple.
0-33 for bass
34 for metronome
35-82 for drums
84-127 for auxilliary instruments. In the spreadsheet I have individual notes, as well as chords that can be used.

0 Bass C1
1 Bass C#1
2 Bass D1
3 Bass D#1
4 Bass E1
5 Bass F1
6 Bass F#1
7 Bass G1
8 Bass G#1
9 Bass A1
10 Bass A#1
11 Bass B1
12 Bass C2
13 Bass C#2
14 Bass D2
15 Bass D#2
16 Bass E2
17 Bass F2
18 Bass F#2
19 Bass G2
20 Bass G#2
21 Bass A2
22 Bass A#2
23 Bass B2
24 Bass C3
25 Bass C#3
26 Bass D3
27 Bass D#3
28 Bass E3
29 Bass F3
30 Bass F#3
31 Bass G3
32 Bass G#
33 Bass A
34 Drum Metronome
35 Drum Acoustic Bass Drum
36 Drum Bass Drum 1
37 Drum Side Stick
38 Drum Acoustic Snare
39 Drum Hand Clap
40 Drum Electric Snare
41 Drum Low Floor Tom
42 Drum Closed Hi-Hat
43 Drum High Floor Tom
44 Drum Pedal Hi-Hat
45 Drum Low Tom
46 Drum Open Hi-Hat
47 Drum Low-Mid Tom
48 Drum Hi-Mid Tom
49 Drum Crash Cymbal 1
50 Drum High Tom
51 Drum Ride Cymbal 1
52 Drum Chinese Cymbal
53 Drum Ride Bell
54 Drum Tambourine
55 Drum Splash Cymbal
56 Drum Cowbell
57 Drum Crash Symbol 2
58 Drum Vibraslap
59 Drum Ride Cymbal 2
60 Drum Hi Bongo
61 Drum Low Bongo
62 Drum Mute Hi Conga
63 Drum Open Hi Conga
64 Drum Low Conga
65 Drum High Timbale
66 Drum Low Timbale
67 Drum High Agogo
68 Drum Low Agogo
69 Drum Cabasa
70 Drum Maracas
71 Drum Short Whistle
72 Drum Long Whistle
73 Drum Short Guiro
74 Drum Long Guiro
75 Drum Claves
76 Drum Hi Wood Block
77 Drum Low Wood Block
78 Drum Mute Cuica
79 Drum Open Cuica
80 Drum Mute Triangle
81 Drum Open Triangle
82 Drum Shaker
84 Aux C1 or chord C
85 Aux C#1 or chord C#
86 Aux D1 or chord D
87 Aux D#1 or chord D#
88 Aux E1 or chord E
89 Aux F1 or chord F
90 Aux F#1 or chord F#
91 Aux G1 or chord G
92 Aux G#1 or chord G#
93 Aux A1 or chord A
94 Aux A#1 or chord A#
95 Aux B1 or chord B
96 Aux C2 or chord Cm
97 Aux C#2 or chord C#m
98 Aux D2 or chord Dm
99 Aux D#2 or chord D#m
100 Aux E2 or chord Em
101 Aux F2 or chord Fm
102 Aux F#2 or chord F#m
103 Aux G2 or chord Gm
104 Aux G#2 or chord G#m
105 Aux A2 or chord Am
106 Aux A#2 or chord A#m
107 Aux B2 or chord Bm
108 Aux C3 or chord C7
109 Aux C#3 or chord C#7
110 Aux D3 or chord D7
111 Aux D#3 or chord D#7
112 Aux E3 or chord E7
113 Aux F3 or chord F7
114 Aux F#3 or chord F#7
115 Aux G3 or chord G7
116 Aux G#3 or chord G#7
117 Aux A3 or chord A7
118 Aux A#3 or chord A#7
119 Aux B3 or chord B7
120 Aux C4
121 Aux C#4
122 Aux D4
123 Aux D#4
124 Aux E4
125 Aux F4
126 Aux F#4
127 Aux G4

hi where can i download this standard drumset with bass? thank you

HI guys, did I miss something? reading this, it looks like there was agreement on a GM compatible set and Jivejong sent the possible setting…
but it is from last year and It does not seems to me is implemented…
My concern is to really have the GM standard set not occupied with bass, as this implies lot of shuffling around with single drum instrument and can be a shop stopper for the time involved. This is important for me as I like music including lot of percussions, but also if you just wan to convert a midi file that has “just” a tambourine or shaker …etc…
If jivejong proposal (that I can perfectly live with… thanks) is not reaching agreement, I send here an alternative one that I made, keeping the bass as it is now for few kits, so less changes…
And anyway if you are worried now for the past work to be converted, we can still have previous sets for previous songs and new ones from now on…
Please share your view so that we can hopefully conclude the discussion on this… :slight_smile:

Yes… is there talk of this topic on a more recent thread? I’m trying right now to bring in a midi for Eric Clapton’s “Forever Man”. That tune has significant use of congas and timbales.

What does that have to do with using the 0-32 range? (I am not picking up on the significance of that range vs some other…)

This is probably the most recent thread however, Phil Flood has been implementing his kits by leaving the drums in their GM-compliant positions. This makes it easier to work up the songs. With his kits, you don’t usually have to massage the drum instruments and the bass gets dropped a couple of octaves (to me, this is much more intuitive) and the keyboards are raised a few octaves. With most DAWs allowing users to configure macros or presets, it’s easy to work up a song. Try jivejong’s, Phil’s, aashideacon’s and Phil Flood’s kits and see which one(s) work best for you. I agree that a single standard is needed. Maybe we’re getting closer, maybe not . . . .

NB. Read Phil Flood’s description sheets that accompany his kits. He’s very clear on the pros and cons of using his kits.

But there is a HUGE sacrifice… Since most percussion instruments have multiple samplings removed in the “Flood” kits, drums tend to sound a bit flat in frequencies. Multiple samples allows for random. sounds since no two drum hits are exactly alike.

The real solution is to get rid of the 100mb overhead on kits. That way, multiple samples and GM mapping can be retained as well as adding other features. I fear though that the limit is because of the microcomputer in the pedal itself.

I don’t see where using the 0-32 range causes any difficulty in hearing bass. You don’t move the track to 0-32 until you are ready to merge the track for export to BBM. I did find sticking to full GM for the drums to be limiting. Up through Midi 71, no issue, but I prefer having 72 to 127 available for a keyboard style instrument. Midi 72 through 81 does not have very much that is used frequently. Calves could be moved to midi 71 to replace the whistle. If you want the guiro, you could put that at 34/35.

I agree. Having a multi-sampled kit would be ideal. 200mb would be plenty of room. 150mb might be enough for a full drum kit, with single bass and keyboard samples.

Ok, I think I get it then. When you transpose it down that low it becomes hard to hear the intended note. Yeah, I transpose as a last step, then save it and import.

Thanks for the replies gents. First attempt didn’t go so well using StandardPBass and trying to get that baseline up into the 87-115 range. At +5 octaves I lose the opening D (and MAIN!) note through the whole song. (#84 and #86 not supported? I forget what BB is using those for but I just remembered that this kit starts at Eb. DOH!) At +6 octaves I end up losing stuff off the top at 117, 120 and 122 for the same reason. The samples that did play didn’t sound very good in BBM. I should investigate that on its own just to understand what is happening there.

Sometimes when the bass notes are outside of the range, you may have to adjust just those notes (outside the range) up or down an octave using your DAW. Most times the song in the BBM will still sound okay though. Once you get the hang of it, the work flows pretty quickly.

It’s not so much the bass that’s the problem. As an example, look at a hi-hat in any kit. Typically, it has 3-6 samples. The firmware/software , when the midi (42?) is intercepted, picks 1 sample at random. Each sample has a velocity range. So, if you only have one sample/midi “note”, you have a "flat@ response . That’s not what real drums sound like.

But I understand why Phil did it that way… To save memory.

When I built the kits, I thought the drums might sound drum-machine like. The only variable was going to be velocity. But, I did have real wave samples, so that was a plus. Still, it has to sound unnatural, or mechanical, when you only have one sample per drum. I can’t say I was disappointed in how the kits turned out. If anything, I was more disappointed in how the short keyboard notes get treated. If there is a Beat Buddy II, a bigger drum kit memory size is a necessity. And there are a whole bunch of other recommendations in the “Features Request” section. But, I am real happy with what I got. As a one man band solution, for versatility, ease of use, and size, it’s real tough to beat. It beats the hell out of the Digitech Trio. I might be able to make a multi-part looper do what I can do on the BB (I would need 3 parts, minimum) but add price into the equation, and, well, I’ll stick with the Beat Buddy.

No need to be disappointed in your kits, they are great! The pedal has limitations, but we try to work around it all. It was never envisioned as a bass or Hammond pedal. It was never envisioned to be able to add sound effects, etc etc. so we keep pushing the limits.

What I find very disconcerting is how unresponsive SS seems to be to us users who are more of the “one man band” type. At one piint, I keot track of how many requested the bass kits and how many were downloading OPB files as well as other bass files (like Guitar Stu’s). I believe bass use v drum loop use is about 50-50 at this point and I imagine that bass use might even drive strong sales. And yet I see nothing from SS to indicate that they see or appreciate this use of the pedal… oh well.