It’s crazy how many kinds of 'hats they use… just moved them all to 42 (closed) and 46 (open)
Thank you aashideacon! It works fine. I wanted to go the other way and assign the standard BB drumset but so far I was not successful.
I was discussing the topic in parallel with Toontrack and the most intersting outcome about the extended midi was:
The hi hats articulations are what is usually the ‘extended’ parts. There are quite a few different open articulations, for example. They are offered to allow for the most realistic drum experience. A real hi hat has varying levels of ‘open’, not just one. Also, you can hit a hi hat with the top of the stick our the shaft of the stick. Different sound. There are offered. GM doesn’t.
I annoyed them a little bit and mentioned “it’s crazy how many kind of hats they use…” (BTW: thank you again [SIZE=4]aashideacon) and this is what they answered :):[/SIZE]
My answer would be: ‘it’s not 1985 anymore’. It’s what Toontrack was founded on in the first place. The best, most detailed, realistic sounding drum libraries and sample engine. Our customer demand more realism. We provide it to them. Realism requires articulations to simulate that realism. Articulations require GM Extended mapping.
This brings me to the question: Are there any plans to make BB extended midi compatible?
The whole discussion could be seen here: EZD2 midi mapping
It should already be possible to make the BB match the extended midi used in EZD2 by designing a drum set that matches an EZD2 drum set. Although I am not sure of the limitations of a) the number of instruments you can have in a drum set on the BB and b) the memory limits for storing drum samples (is it 100MB?) which might limit the number of samples you could add (presuming there is a way to record / copy samples from EZD2). Would this be possible?
One idea I started to experiment with was to create a drum set with no instruments (except one dummy one with only one .wav file as that is the minimum) and instead of using the BB for sound I fed the midi from the BB to my laptop and directly into EZD2 to see if I could play EZD2 with midi files on the BB. Effectively reducing the BB to a foot controllable midi player with no sound. I think it worked but I didn’t take it further to see if I could include GM Extended Mapped instruments in the BB midi files. It did appear to send out all the midi stored on the BB even though there were no drum instruments in the particular BB drum set that mapped onto the midi notes. Also I wasn’t sure whether the BB would create the humanized feel it does with a standard drum set - not sure how that works?..
My only disappointment with BeatBuddy is that the stock kits are not GM Midi standard. How sweet it would be if they created all of their standard type kits in GM Standard. Then any beat can be ported from just about any drum program.
But, I get around it:
I’ve been editing beats using Sonar X3, but I’m sure any Midi DAW will do. There are so many patterns that can be ported to BeatBuddy with a bit of tweaking.
[BTW: One beat programming tip: When saving a midi loop, make sure the LAST note is extended to the END of the measure, otherwise your loop will be trucated.]
Knowing Which drums are active active within a particular BeatBuddy drum set patch is helpful. Most times I will slide an instrument over to fall into an existing BeatBuddy instrument key assignment (IE: a Kick recording on key 35 will get slipped to key 36).
But, I’ve also created my own drum set by “filling in the blanks” where BeatBuddy’s drumset is lean on wav samples.
The only problem I’ve run into is that I have to be mindful of the file size since, at the moment, BeatBuddy has a size limit. But, as long as I’m not using a lot of samples per instrument, I can fill in the missing instrument blanks easily.
Once the blanks are filled, I save my new GM Midi standard Kit and I can port just about any pattern from my DAW Drum programs.
(See example Below. Where there are X’s, BeatBuddy already has an instrument in place. Where there is need for an instrument to match a GM Kit, I have added it. Instruments are added to match a Standard GM Midi Drumkit are noted after the key number.)
I’m also uploading an image from an excel sheet I made, that shows the assigments of a Standard Beatbuddy Kit with highlights in YELLOW to show the BLANKS. You can see the .wav samples I used to “fill in the blanks” mentioned below.
Key # / Missing Standard GM KIT Instrument
35 HR Kick
40 Snare 2
41 Tom 2
47 Mid Tom 1
52 Splash Cymbal
54 Tamborine 2 and 4
58 Tamborine Slap Sus
60 High Bongo
61 Low Bongo
62 Muted High Conga
63 Open High Conga
64 Low Muffled Conga
65 High Timbale
66 Low Timbale
67 High Agogo
68 Low Agogo
72 Long Whistle
73 Short Guiro
74 Long Guiro
76 High Wood Block
77 Low Wood Block
78 Mute Cuíca
79 Open Cuíca
80 Mute Triangle
81 Open Triangle
Hey @John M,
BeatBuddy stock kits do follow the general midi! To prove that to you, just play on your computer any of the normal beats and fills MIDI files included with BeatBuddy default content. Your computer utilizes general midi mapping and will reproduce all elements of our loops (kick, snare, hats, toms, cymbals, claps…).
If you use loops from VST drum plugins like Superior Drummer or Ez Drummer, they will not work in BeatBuddy because they use slightly different mapping. General midi has 2 kicks and 2 snare drums. These plugins may use one midi note for a kick, we may use another. So, it is not that BeatBuddy kits are not compatible with general midi, it is that loops created for these other drum plugins are not compatible with BeatBuddy. Nobody ever said they would be!
Remember that BeatBuddy sets won’t have all instruments as in general midi (percussion). This is due to limitation of BB memory (100MB) and because our intention was not to replace general midi sounds, but to create drum sets for BeatBuddy Pedal. Latin set has many percussion instruments that are not fully supported by general midi, so mapping there is going to be different in places.
I am currently contemplating producing a new General kit which will be very versatile and will include other percussion elements commonly found in popular music: cowbell, shaker, tambourine, simple congas, simple bongos. How much gets included will depend on how much we can fit in 100MB.
I understand that.
My apologies. I didn’t state that correctly in my email. I know that the instruments that are present in an official BB kit are Matched to GM but there are instruments I “wish” were there, as included in a full GM kit.
I should have said the BB are “partial general midi GM kits.”
The standard BB kits are “missing” some instruments that are key to many of the MIdI grooves (created using GM kits).
I actually created a GM kit (as described above in my previous email) by “filling in the blanks.” It stays under the 100mB mark and works perfectly in BB when porting over the grooves created using GM kits in other beat programs. (See the image I had attached. The yellow represents the missing instruments that I added while keeping it under the mark.)
I’m currently doing the same with a brush kit.
Please don’t get me wrong; I’m not complaining. I’m simply wishing.
The fact that you have this software that is open to customization is fantastic.
Tweaking, for gear-addict users like myself, is just part of the fun.
So, keep up the great work!
Thanks, @John M . No problem.
Here is the debate I have: create a kit with minimal percussion utilizing general midi mapping for percussion (which would not make it compatible with beats created for Latin set) or create a kit with minimal percussion utilizing mapping for percussion as found in the Latin set?
It seems that the limitations in acceptable file size is standing in the way.
Maybe creating a kit where you don’t have several layers of a certain instrument’s samples (i.e. shakers or Tamborine) weighing down the kit would work. Maybe make one kit heavier on the velocity samples for Latin and another kit heavier for pop style instruments without removiing the ither instrument slots entirely. (This is what I did with the kit I created. It has all of the GM instruments and stays under the weight limit.)
Then a User who is importing a GM based groove can toggle between the two to see which sounds more natural.
(And, cheers to you for even putting the conversation out there for users to discuss. Nice!)
We can get most instruments within the file limit by using less sample. For some percussion instruments that is not a problem and they are quite small anyway. The issue is that general midi has very limited types of strokes for a specific drum. For example, in general midi there may only be 2-3 sounds for a conga (open, muffled), while omitting other types of strokes like palm, fingers, rumba slap, open slap, bass… Lets not forget that we have quinto, conga and tumba, which collectively are considered congas. General midi only has 2.
The Latin kit for BB has all types strokes for all percussion instruments, so nothing was left out. For any BeatBuddy song that required some percussion, it was done using the Latin kit mapping as that is the only one that has those instruments. A new kit utilizing general midi mapping would not be able to play those beats properly.
I’ll have to do some thinking and find the best compromise. I am planning on producing a new general kit very soon, as I mentioned, so I will try to address those general midi percussion needs the best I can.
Cheers, @John M !
Making kits with BB specific instruments is great. Those shouldn’t have to be rigid GM midi.
My wish list is just to have a choice of a GM kit for those times when I want to import a groove created or ported from my daw. When using a BB created groove, using a BB kit is a no brainer. Why use anything else?
The GM kits I created for BB have the “GM” in the kit name so I know why it’s there. When a BB kit is not firing all of the instruments in a groove, I pull in the GM kit and I can hear what was missing.
Hey @John M ,
here is the brand new kit with most GM mapping in place!
It was a heck of a lot of work
Toms are still mapped as on the other BB kits, while I duplicated the kick drum to midi note 35 to make it compatible with some of those non-bb loops.
Hope you like it.
I can’t wait to give it a try.
Love my Beat Buddy!
Thanks Goran and John for this discussion. You dealt with many questions I’ve come up against (thinking of using EZD2 to refine BB parts for instance). I’m getting (reluctantly) dragged into learning more about MIDI precisely because Beat Buddy has become so indispensable to my gigs but ultimately I think and hear like a musician so I’m always wondering how can I get more musicality into the mix.
How do I get this Kit? Mark
You can purchase it at the Premium Library. Here:
I just would like to use wav files of ezdrummer on my BB kits. it is possible?
I’m only a newbie, but I’d say: Technically, you need a wav of 44.1 kHz and 16 or 24 bit, then you can use them within a custom made drum set or as an accent sound. Legally, you’d have to look if you are allowed to use those samples in the way you want it.
There may be more info already on the forum: Ezdrumers sounds on bb - #2 by persist
Read Phil_Flood’s comment here Why EZ Drummer files are never going to port directly to BB
The answer to most of your questions can usually be found with a little bit of searching on the forum.
Give this a try if you have not done so already: New Drumset EZDrummer 2 -Modern drumkit