Any kits with new horns...Phil?

BeatBuddy General
#1

I typically use Phil Flood’s STAX kits - especially V1 - great piano sound and full punchy bass but when I do non-BB work in the studio its Session Horns. Phil has commented on his libraries in the past. Of course in cases such as Session Horns multiple combinations of individual horns are possible - far more than BB could handle. BB would need captured combinations.

Its tough after I’ve spoiled my ears in the studio when I try to transfer the key parts via Reaper so we can do a song live. I might try to substitute Santana Piano & Organ (another favorite of mine from Phil) or some other.

As a reformed horn player the sounds so far in BB are limiting. Staying low in the mix adds some grit that works on some songs (e.g., Into the Mystic, She Caught the Katy) but not much more. Keeping within the limits of BB are there any new kits to incorporate that sound more like real sax/brass sections? It seems the handful of channels might be enough but maybe the limitation is availability of .wav files?

#2

I haven’t made any new horn kits for some time. There is no limit on the availability of wav files. I can make up new wav files any time I want. I have the full NI Kontakt library with plenty of good stuff, and several other collections. It’'s more a question of not being able to have the space to get good articulations. My default process is to go with the legato settings, as they are the most useful to my ears. But, that keeps me from having stabs, sforzando, mutes of all types, etc. I suppose, were I so inclined, I could make up a harmon mute set that might be nice for ballads, but anything that resembles Tower of Power or the Blues Brothers, or Chicago is probably beyond the 100mb limitations of the BB.

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#3

Thanks for the update Phil. Its the ‘clarity’ I’m missing that the Sessions Horns provide. Even trying to somehow craft composite wav files for BB space limitations (2 trumpets and a tenor sax for instance to be called for a given channel at varying tonal values) as you noted would not have life-like articulations. At best it would be a frankenstein and not been worth the effort. For live play better to have an outboard box that BB could trigger much as we do with plugins in a DAW.

On the other hand I’m in no hurry to get back into crowded bars for cheap money in the middle of a north eastern winter. Packing up at 2AM got old fast.

#4

My new user two bits: I started making a kit and realized the time/effort wasn’t going to pay off at this point relative to working with what others have made. With respect to more than drums/bass the only way to sound great would be to make a kit for each song to get the appropriate articulations; even then…

The biggest change will come when Aeros can easily import tracks. As it stands, I’d rather record amazing horns, piano, synth, etc. to an Aeros loop than limited articulations in the BB. BB is great for drums and perhaps one other single articulation instrument.

#5

Agreed. As I reworked a current project (Madman Across the Water) I went back to my standby kit from Phil (STAX SAX Acoustic piano) made some changes and again realized why it’s been a favorite. It will work well enough. At risk of stating the obvious - putting things in the mix as we play gives a whole different perspective as opposed to critically listening to the backing track by itself.

#6

I think that’s a very good observation. The aim of the multi-part kits was to produce a serviceable “one-man band.” It was never meant to be a substitute for real musicians or very good backing tracks. The idea was that a solo player could carry just their guitar, BB, and amp to gig, and have something to play along with. When you add your guitar, possibly with effects, and your vocals to the tracks produced BB one-press files, you end up with something that’s going to be good enough for most bar gigs. It wasn’t meant to be something you’d put on record. But, the blend of everything - the BB, plus the guitar/keyboard, plus the vocal - should give you something that sounds pretty cool. And that’s all I was ever really hoping to get.

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