Anyone using Aeros like a 1x6 with mute/solo?

I’m going to start working this out for myself, but I’m wondering if anyone hits limits to their workflow in 2x2, but finds 6x6 is too unwieldy to use? I’ve been getting there, but my brain does not adapt well to 6x6 on the fly.

I’m thinking of trying to use Aeros like a 1x6 machine with a six button MIDI controller to manage mutes and/or solo so I can stack and perform “part” changes all into one part. I’ve already reasoned it out where I realize under many circumstances this may require me to make sure on the loops are the same length. I might be able to get away with a 2x6 if I can program my controller to enable a good workflow. I guess it would kind of be like the EHX 96000 workflow, but each track is stereo (a plus).

Anyone try this and want so share any pros and cons they found?

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@JaredSmythe might have some experience with this.

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By 1x6, do you mean one song part but 6 sync’ed tracks running simultaneously?

Yes. With Mute/Solo via MIDI if any of the 6 tracks define their own song “part”.

So I’m confused, because that sounds like you’re describing 6 song parts but with one track apiece, i.e. one track for each of say intro, verse, prechorus, chorus, bridge, outro.

Or are you describing one song part with 6 tracks that you can play together at any time, subject to track muting, like what I believe the EHX 96000 does?

Perhaps you’re suggesting staying in one song part but using midi controlled muting of tracks to simulate multiple song parts?

This …

And this …

Both of those. 1 Part. 6 tracks to be used in a fluid manner: combined, different permutations or to simulate “parts” all with Mutes and/or Solo. Have you tried this?

This describes the only way I use a looper. I don’t make song parts. I record multiple loops and combine, solo, and/or replace them as desired; with reverse and half-speed thrown in for more fun.

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Well, right now, the Aeros doesn’t do looping effects like reverse or half speed.

I do believe I do have some improv videos on YouTube that do use multiple tracks in just one song part. Let me see if I can find some examples. I have a ton of performance videos, mostly with loopers on my channel

So I used to operate like this when I had the Boss RC-505, but I guess I stopped doing it after I got rid of it. It’s definitely easily doable with a midi controller, but I tend to use song parts since that’s now available to me. I do bring tracks in and out to change the texture at times, but I still use song part changes for the bigger shifts, because it gives me more tracks to work with and it’s simpler to switch between a lot of different tracks.

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So, I did hook up a small MIDI controller and programmed the Mutes. It’s working out okay. I made a bank to be generic Mute capability, but I also actually ended up batching some commands in one switch in what I think will be the most used method of mine (and I can do song specific programming as well … involving MIDI commands sent to other gear when I need a lot to happen instantly … I’ve already done that with a command out to Mute an Aeros track and to Stop an Infinity track with one press). So, just to say, it’s working for me almost as I intended.

One day soon I’ll actually have a performance video using the Aeros integrated in my rig. It’s not how I envisioned using it when I bought it, but I’m happy to find a use for it.

I still don’t like that the MIDI Implementation in Aeros uses only a “Toggle” mute command for individual tracks; pretty sure I’m on record as saying that. Nearly every foot controller I own (and I own or have owned a bunch) can handle toggling SO MUCH better if given two discrete states to work with. As I expected, it caused problems for my work flow. But I digress.


I agree. I don’t like toggle in any midi controlled devices, because it tends to make it play poorly with any system that has the notion of presets and doesn’t also have knowledge of states.

Gotta be an easy fix in future release to provide param values which maps to on and off. Inverts a nice option for some uses, but explicit on/off is definitely needed.

Something like (backwards compatible):

Value 1-6: Mutes/Unmutes track (track # = value #) - TOGGLE

Value 11-16 Mute track (track # -10 = value #)
Value 21-26 UnMute track (track # -20 = value #)

Value 0 - Mutes all tracks.
Value 127 - Unmutes all tracks

For bonus would be really nice to have control over when muting occurs. (I usually use EOL, but there are times where Immediately is important)

Value 11-16 Mute track (track # -10 = value #) Immediately
Value 21-26 UnMute track (track # -20 = value #) Immediately
Value 31-36 Mute track (track # -30 = value #) EOL
Value 41-46 UnMute track (track # -30 = value #) EOL
Value 51-56 Mute track (track # -30 = value #) EOM
Value 61-66 UnMute track (track # -30 = value #) EOM

An alternate way to handle the above is to add a CC that changes the timing of the next command (immediate, eol, eom). The nice thing is that this could be used with all queueable midi commands (mute, solo, change part, stop, etc.) without having to complicate their values. So you would need to send two midi commands (one to set the timing and another to tell it what to mute).

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I agree, mute timing has become a big deal to me tonight. I can’t really do everything I wanted, so I switched to programming a couple New Part and New Track commands to extend the song I’m working on into more like a 3x2 instead of 1x6. However, that’s not quite working out either … it’s not really Aeros’s fault … it can’t Mute a track that’s not in the active Part which is kind of what I realized I was after when programming a couple switches to do complex transitions. I can work around some of it, it just can’t be one touch like I had hoped.

I do like your idea of filling up more of the CC values with some options. I actually have an idea of a MIDI model in my head I should jot down. It’s a little different. I have to also consider backward compatibility as you have done.

I found my answers to the original question and thought I’d share. When reading this, keep in mind that one of my main goals is to build loops live with minimum fuss or subjecting the audience to unnecessary loop rotations while I prepare and tap dance. And with no obvious breaks in the song or interrupting the flow. Over the last few days I’ve learned a lot of the strengths and limitations of Aeros. I was determined to make something work, and I have gotten to the point where I have a pattern of using Aeros and MIDI to get a performance together (Which I will record soon after I’ve rehearsed a bit more).

The tl;dr; version: jump to the last bolded section to see what I ended up doing.

1x6 using MIDI Mutes
My first plan was to just stack all my loops into 1 part using Mutes to control which sections of the part would play. You can’t do this efficiently using only the Aeros footswitches in 6x6 mode, I’ll never be able to get to the Mutes/Unmutes in time or keep it all straight. The MIDI pedal would be programmed as needed to Mute and Unmute tracks with one touch to give each song the structure it requires. Short of it is, the MIDI Muting strategy won’t work reliably due to the lack of specific Mute states per track (it’s toggle only).

2x6 with MIDI Part changing
I thought at that point perhaps I needed to add a part in a more traditional Aeros way. I could still stack tracks like in 1x6, but 2 parts would allow me to be more effective in doing the shifts in the song. I had this crazy idea in my head that I could queue up Mutes before shifting to the next part. This one wasn’t on Aeros, I had to realized that, while you could queue a Mute, you couldn’t do so for the NEXT PART. I tried playing around with a sequence of MIDI commands that would allow me to go to a Part and immediately Mute once it changed over. There was some limited success with that, but it wasn’t going to be reliable and was very accident prone. Through this process though I really got familiar with what is and is not possible over MIDI with regard to recording new Parts and Tracks. If I’m going to use Parts, I have to do it over MIDI to be effecient.

Nx6 with Locked Parts
I discovered that if you had some locked tracks, you could Mute them regardless of which Part you were currently in and the Mute would carry through to Part changes. That’s really cool. So I worked up a MIDI workflow where I could record the bass tracks as 3 separate locked tracks in combination with the “Mute All” while first laying down the tracks. Basically, I would record 2 measures, then in the next 2 measures of playback, I’d queue up a “Mute All” and “Next Track”. The bass part I just recorded would Mute and I’d be on to the next locked track. Repeat until All the locked tracks are made, and then I could go on using the rest of the unused Parts and Tracks for the melody loops, and in each Part I could queue Mute/Unmute for the locked tracks so only the one I wanted would play. I was pretty excited about this one, but in the end it was the Muting strategy that let me down. It’s fine at first, but once you start adding the additional unlocked tracks to a parts, being able to Mute/Unmute the locked tracks reliably using only the “Toggle” interface is unmanageable.

6x6 with MIDI Part Management only
This is were I ended up and it worked out the best for me and will allow me to complete my compositions and loop them live. This is what I’ll show in practice when I shoot the video. I basically avoid doing any Part Management on the Aeros itself and I program my MIDI controller buttons for all of that instead. It’s probably a bit more like the use case devised with the Maestro, but with some added twists of my own.

I have 1 MIDI button programmed to record “New Part”. I go through that in sequence quickly until I have my bass track (creating 4 parts in this case). As I perform on the guitar, I have 1 switch programmed that toggles between just 2 parts. Songs often toggle between 2 parts a lot, so I can just concentrate on using that 1 switch. But I also devised it so that I can substitute which 2 parts are active in the Toggle strategy (I’m a programmer, so flexible controllers like the Liquid Foot and Morningstar give me a lot of room to explore ideas). Basically, it’s 1 switch to toggle and 1 switch to replace which parts are being toggled by that switch, so I always go back to using that 1 toggle switch for actually changing parts (I really like it when there is 1 switch I can focus on for a common task, like switching parts). There is a moment in the song where I just bring in a part for a couple measures, it doesn’t need to be part of a toggle strategy, so I have just 1 switch programmed to jump straight to that part.

If I need to record or overdub a track in a part, I use the Aeros switches.

At the end of the song, it winds down with a special MIDI button that mutes some tracks in the last measures.

So far so good. I learned a ton and left a lot of ideas on the table for now. It was pretty frustrating at times knowing that most roadblocks to my ideas are simply that the MIDI Implementation in Aeros is not what it should be. But at least I’m on my way with this device finally. I really want to see it succeed (my measure of success will be doing with it what no other looper can do).

With 6 tracks on one part if the tracks are long and mute is set to EOL this is a bit easier. You can also use the solo feature, right?

At some point the auto pilot mode if the beat buddy will ship and you might be able to use that to control 6 parts.

Agreed. It wouldn’t work for me since I make the smallest loop I possibly can in order to keep the song flowing.

I don’t know what that is. Is that like the MIDI changes are preprogrammed into the sequence stored in the Beat Buddy? (I don’t have the Beat Buddy)

Yup. Auto pilot changes the beat buddy parts based upon some config … which would send next part messages to Aeros.

It’s an expensive solution.

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Yeah, that’s more like the kind of looping I’ve always done … preprogrammed bits. I’m trying very hard to avoid doing anything that isn’t built on the fly in the song, so I’m banging out a drum beat using a McMillen BopPad and a Roland TM-2 and that actually gets recorded into an Infinity that is synced with a Master Clock.