BB as slave MIDI sync problem

BeatBuddy Help, Questions and Bugs
1

Hi everyone!
I’m trying to sync my BB to Ableton live, using M-Audio midi device. I tried with other midi devices as KORG KP3 and Roland MX-1 but result is the same.

BB settings are:
Sync - On
Control Change (CC) - Off
NoteOn - Off

So, when I start Ableton, I can see link icon on BB and correct tempo is written. But when I start BB it is not in time with metronome. Visual metronome differs from Ableton metronome too. It does not matter if BB settings for auto start is on. Turning intro off does not helps.

Any idea what could be wrong?

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Anyone with same problem?

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Hello all & dust_bg,
I’ve been struggling with this problem - intermittently - for at least as long as dust’s post has been out there [Jun 2018(?)].
Can it really be that dust and I are the only ones in the BB community who would like to slave BB to an external clock source?

In the mean time I’ve worked out a number of other challenges with my MIDI network that I won’t bore you with, except to say that my ideal of an affordable Standard Notation software which includes adequate MIDI implementation is elusive at best.
But one obstacle in this search is that BeatBuddy will not perform as specified.

Nothing I’ve tried will start my BeatBuddy a-drumming.
Not Harmony Assistant, MuseScore, QuickScore Elite, or even the DAWs such as Ableton Live 10 Lite. Synchronizing BB with the clock (Beats per Minute) among these programs is hit-or-miss, and the synch misses are very weird, but not one will make the BB start drumming.

I’ve pulled everything out of the MIDI network to troubleshoot this, and I’m down to this today:
PC to Roland D-05 [this is a synth / sequencer module] via USB [since the BB doesn’t have a functional real-time USB capability] to the BB over DIN (a MIDI cable).

Everything’s set properly in the PC, the D-05, and the BeatBuddy.
BB recognizes the tempo (BPM) to a mysteriously varying degree depending on the software (I guess), but it will not start drumming even though the D-05 is perfectly happy to start playing any sequence upon receipt of the start signal.

Can anybody help ole dust_bg and me? Singular Sound?

4

Update / Edit to my last post.
My usual MIDI chain is PC over USB to Behringer UMC404HD [serves as the USB interface for BeatBuddy] then over DIN (MIDI cable) to the D-05.
Unhooking the D-05 has no effect on the performance of BB. It does not start playing.
(The order is important because BB is often the clock source for the D-05, in which case everything starts & stops & plays at the correct speed.)

As I said before, the D-05 tends to recognize the start signal passing through BB, but it plays at 2x the tempo sent by software; this is the mysterious and weird thing I referred to above.
Of course I can reduce the transmitted tempo by half to play the sequence at the speed I want, and BB even displays this reduced BPM but just doesn’t play.

There are two caveats to my complaint, and what might be a Big Clue for the technically inclined out there, assuming there are some reading this:

  1. If I leave the PC out of this for a minute (no USB at all), disconnect everything except D-05 Out to BB In over a MIDI cable, and set the D-05 to internal clock, then BB starts drumming when the D-05 plays a sequence and follows the tempo as anticipated.

  2. Contrary to what I said before, BB does start & play & stop when Ableton Live 10 Lite is the master. However, it still somehow doubles the tempo that is passed through to the D-05 while itself following Ableton’s tempo accurately.

So, yes it seems there is a difference between the signal sent by the notation software(s) and that sent by Ableton. And the BeatBuddy doubles the tempo as the clock signal passes through it.
Yep… Weird…

5

Wow!
Firmware 3.6.0 “The Bug Zapper”!

Not a direct reply to this thread, but someone must have been listening.
Numerous MIDI fixes…etc.

Except that now instead of doubling the passed-through tempo, BeatBuddy-as-slave quadruples the received tempo as it passes clock to downstream MIDI devices.

EDIT:
Here’s a quote from another drum machine’s manual:
The Clock input and output can synchronize with older clock types such as 24 pulses per
quarter note (ppqn), 48 ppqn, 2 ppqn (Korg), or even a single pulse per step.

I’m not at my BB right now, but don’t recall any settings related to pulses per quarter note.
This is definitely a hint, even if not a clue, about what’s going on here.

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I have no trouble at all with sync and use Ableton Live 10.1. You need to make sure the time is set to zero on the sequencer ( 1.1.1 in Live) otherwise the beat buddy wont start. Otherwise it works very well. Presumably that would apply to any DAW. I use a k-mix as my audio interface which has the added midi interface which sends syncs through to the BB and through it on out to my Infinity looper. The clock is synced from the internal clock on the k-mix set at 48k. It starts and stops both with no problems. I also use a MOTU interface and that works in the same way.The time wanders a little but only a beat or two. I like that because it makes it more human. I am not a machine.

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therayman,
Thank you for your reply. It’s interesting that your MIDI interface is clock master for both Ableton and the other devices. I did correct my statement about Ableton. BB responds to it OK.
I have wondered if my BB is defective because of my clock pass-through issue.
But it should be remembered that my other devices are Roland, and Roland has its own idiosyncrasies, particularly related to MIDI & USB interactions.
Still, it seems to me that once clock is handed off to a downstream device (BB), there would be no Roland effect
I see today that there are some other recent sync-related posts, so I’m going to check those out.

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I do use the clock in the kmix but it works direct from Live too or any other sync. I pass that signal onto a Roland via through to another synth which both take it with no problem. I only sync through the k-mix because that is central to my system. Snc works direct to my looper from the BB if I am not using anything else.

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Quoting myself in italics:
As I said before, the D-05 tends to recognize the start signal passing through BB, but it plays at 2x the tempo sent by software; this is the mysterious and weird thing I referred to above.

1. If I leave the PC out of this for a minute (no USB at all), disconnect everything except D-05 Out to BB In over a MIDI cable, and set the D-05 to internal clock, then BB starts drumming when the D-05 plays a sequence and follows the tempo as anticipated.

EDIT: Taking BB Out then, in this test, to GT-Pro In for delay effects timing:
GT-Pro shows a Master BPM (external) coming in at two to four times the BPM output by the D-05 as recognized by BB.

2. Contrary to what I said before, BB does start & play & stop when Ableton Live 10 Lite is the master. However, it still somehow doubles the tempo that is passed through to the D-05 while itself following Ableton’s tempo accurately.

Thankful that others are not experiencing this problem. No suggestions yet.The mystery remains…

10

The last thing we try is one of the first things we would have tried, if only we had some reason to think it was the source of our trouble; such as it being obvious to somebody else.

After spending yet more blood, sweat, tears, time, and money (don’t ask) in troubleshooting this, it seems this might be solved.
I have not reinstalled BB into my full-blown MIDI setup yet, but here’s what I have done using the test setup from above:

  1. Ableton Live 10 Lite over USB to Behringer UM404HD as an interface, out to BB, then out to D-05.

I had thought MIDI-MERGE is the most flexible setting, to be able to pass note data from the DAW and send note data originating from BB should that be desired at some point.

  1. Change BeatBuddy MIDI-OUT Output Type from MIDI-MERGE to MIDI-THRU.
    That’s it.
    Also works if MIDI-OUT Output Type is set to MIDI-OUT.
    This only works because clock signal is entirely separate from note data and is not dependent on channel settings.

I knew that, but apparently clock signal is not only sent through BB, but BB also generates its own signal (or it somehow loops internally) and as a result, adds that to what it sends out and screws everything up.

I do not think BB is the only device out there that behaves like this. It’s just something I was unaware of.

So, here’s hoping this simple fix remains effective once the entire network is put back together. And that others might benefit too.

By the way, I’ve determined that BB’s failure to start drumming in response to my standard notation programs is the fault of those programs, not BB’s fault.

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As for my last comment above,
BB’s failure to start drumming in response to clock signals sent by software such as my standard notation programs can be corrected by sending CC 114 [greater than zero] to it over its assigned MIDI channel. This is only true if the software is capable of doing that, of course.
Hard to say if this is typical, as another rhythm machine I’m familiar with doesn’t require this step.

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Hi John_Mixson, thanks for your insight on this thread, are you still using Ableton and Beatbuddy together? I am looking at doing similar along with a midi foot controller, my dream would be to be able to control everything through the foot controller, with Ableton as master controlling the beat buddy (and also triggering lights). Is this doable from your experience?

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Hi Creedon. Yes, I’d say it’s doable!

The problems described in this thread were resolved in my case once my MIDI network cabling was properly configured.

MIDI is a serial data stream, and MIDI clock seems to behave globally, not addressed to specific devices.

At some point in the process I had wondered how the devices parse clock signals. Apparently they don’t.

I had to draw diagrams of the various attempted configurations before realizing that a clock signal entering a network from two directions, or remerging after being split, will have these negative confusing effects on downstream devices.
I highly recommend drawing out your network.

I rewired my network with a Thru box (splitter) immediately after the USB interface and Merge boxes elsewhere.
One of the Mergers has my foot controller group at one input and BeatBuddy at the other, with Merger output to the GT-Pro.

If I don’t feel like booting my PC, BeatBuddy is master clock for the effects. When working with PC, the application is master; BeatBuddy and effects slave to that.

One compromise I’ve made is that the D-05 won’t be asked to provide clock, at least until I feel a need for that and a willingness to revisit my cabling.

One other important note about clock that I’ve discovered in my network:
In order for me to use GT-Pro’s software editor, its USB driver has to be enabled in the PC, of course.
However, the driver gives clock input priority to the USB, disabling clock reception over the 5-pin MIDI cable.
For this reason, I have to disable the driver when slaving GT-Pro to BeatBuddy, etc.

MIDI note data and Control Change messages/values are addressed to specific devices/channels, so being sure that you’ve avoided the clock conflicts above, you should have good success.

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