Hey there,
first of all I have to say, that I am so happy BBMO came out. Now song editing is much more fun, but I got some issues and hopefully you can help me.
I got this song with 7/4 Signature during verse and chorus and an 8/4 during transition fill. It is working inside chrome but running on the device itself the transition fill is reduced to 7/4. Any solutions to that?
Maybe I did something wrong…
My experience with transitions that are longer than the beat signature says that you need to hold it over the bar length of the beat. But in my case I had 2/4 beat and 4/4 transition 
So it could be that in your case it would end up playing 14/4 in total 
Also, in my case the fill played 4/4 (the whole fill) so would a fill instead work for you? 
Hi . . . I JUST purchased the Beat Buddy and the FIRST song I went to program is Solsbury Hill . . . and the problems you are having are a perfect DITTO to mine. I have a Two (2) 7/4 parts with a 2 bar 4/4 part for a transition. So I am very interested in what is wrong here. It appears that I have to perform the transition at the PERFECT MOMENT to get it to work correctly both on the online manager and the actual BB. To me, this is counter intuitive to the purpose of the unit. Sometimes when I execute the transition, it will insert the transition AND begin the second part . . . completely out of sync! At other times, it will execute the transition TWICE! This is my first song to program on this BB and I must say I am getting a bit frustrated. NOTE, I have been programming sequencers since the mid 1980’s so I am not a beginner! I would appreciate any advice as to what I am doing wrong.
Thanks in advance
Kevin
I’m only planning to try some prog songs but haven’t tried yet.
The only thing that comes to mind is that since it looks like transition with different time signature doesn’t work as expected then adding a song part for transition might be the only option currently
That should work as I have tested that different parts can have different time signatures 
Mmmh, sounds like an idea. I have to check this
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Based on this alone I’d say there is a small time window to make it work how it’s expected to work 
Let’s say this is the typical 7/4 measure:
| x x x x x x x |
Now how it should work is that you press (p) and hold (h) the BB transition over the measure, and release (r) between the 7/4 and 8/4 like this:
| x p h h h h h | r | x x x x x x x |
So there will be kind of a 1/4 bar in this case And if you release during that, preferably not exactly 7/4 nor 8/4 it will likely work 
If you release early this will happen:
| x p h h h h r | x x x x x x x |
If you release late one of the three will happen (t=transition fill):
| x p h h h h h | h | r t t t t t |
| x p h h h h h | h | r t t t t t t |
| x p h h h h h | h | r t t t t t t t |
All of these will sound like the transition is twice as long as it should be
Note that in reality it will always be just one of the three I just don’t know which
P.S. I think the case where transition measure doesn’t line up with beat measure is not considered by SS when programming BB. So I’d say it’s not a bug but just missing a feature
P.P.S. Note that fills work entirely differently compared to transition fills:
So that is still an option that could work out of the box 
But that requires investigation
honestly I am sick of finding of finding stressful compromise solutions for a device of that price range. Thanks anyway
Yes, success with the last post. Kind of a PITA how I have to perform this but at least it is producing reliable results now. The “link” option is nice in the Online Manager . . . no need to maintain separate identical tracks . . .
I think I am onto something here. I will need to experiment further when I get some time. When I said I have to press and release the pedal at the “exact given moment” . . . I have not been able to get this work now. It is a disaster. So I have to do something else.
I know the BB is “forgiving” in that, if you request a “Fill” while in the middle of a “part”, it will go ahead and execute that fill for you . . . . and this is what is causing the unit to become completely confused, especially when the “part” and the “fill” are two completely different lengths and time signatures. On occasion, the unit will completely fall out of proper time sync.
So “I think” the secret is to keep each “Part” and its associated “fills” the same length and time signature. Then I will have to daisy chain each part separately, including the 8/4 part that is played ONE TIME between the 7/4 portions of the song (or create a two measure 4/4). My initial testing seems to show this be working. I will get back later today to see if I can finalize this. It requires more “critical timing” with the pedal presses, but is doable.
Two things : there was a bug in the Online manager. I created 4 parts, but testing would only play the two parts . . . until I shut down the software and reloaded it, then it started to work correctly.
It would seem that for complex time signatures, it would be better if the unit had an option to shut down “transaction forgiveness” . . . IE: to not start the new fill/transaction, etc. In the MIDDLE of a current playing part. Wait for the part to complete, THEN begin the NEW fill/transaction. I DID find this option in the settings menu, but it did not seem to perform the way I was hoping it would . . .
Hey aapo, I do appreciate your input here. I am getting your message that holding and releasing at that “exact moment” is probably what is necessary. I would think that after over 10 years, some of these options would have been investigated and integrated.
I have made a discovery that is helpful. It appears that the “transitions” will work at the end of a bar. Therefore, if you sequence has one bar, it WILL transition properly when the bar has completed. However, if it has 2 (or more) bars, if you “release” for the transition before the 1st bar is completed, then when said bar has completed, it will immediately jump to the next part . . . . which WILL put the song out of sequence. I am going to look at this phenomenon some more, but this may be explaining ALL my issues. In the case of Solsbury Hill, I made all drum parts one bar and it is transitioning perfectly. I have some other songs that have 2 bars and/or more and YES, press and release at the wrong time (instead of at the end of the said sequence), WILL cause it to cancel remaining bars and just to next part.
It would really be effective if there was a toggle area or something to allow sequence to be interrupted OR Make sure sequence plays to end before switching . . . . I’m a keyboardist so I already have my pedals doing a lot of things. Bearing in mind that I have to treat the drum pedal this way is more labor, less creativity on a performance. 
Thanks
Glad to be helping 
My impression of the development of BB is that with the previous BBM ending up impossible to develop further also new BB features stopped coming
Now we should be transitioning to a phase where new BB features could be developed thanks to the new BBMO 
This is at least what I hope
Personally I’d vote for support of having different time signatures within a part, including fills and transitions I haven’t searched if people have requested this though I’m still fairly new user (less than one year) and haven’t even played any prog with BB Every case I have had with changing time signatures I just used pause for one or two beats and in with a fill
I have given some thought for the feature of multiple time signatures within part, and it complicates things a bit. Currently it doesn’t matter if you think that should a fill start at the beginning of measure or should it end at the end of measure. But with multiple time signatures it becomes relevant question And if you think more about it a deep rabbit hole emerges 
But I have so far avoided entering that hole
Yes, I get it. Like I previously stated, this unit does fill a void were for a basic song (4/4), it is VERY forgiving of pressing the pedal at the wrong time. It still keeps things in sync. But I am quickly discovering . . . . as in prog . . . that if you are dealing with multiple time signatures, you have to hit the pedal RIGHT at the PERFECT Time. I have been rehearsing playing keys while “attempting” to use the pedal to get parts performed . . . and I have come to the conclusion that this is too much work for me to handle. I playing keys . . . and not very basic songs at that . . . and I have to remember to hit this pedal right at the first beat of a part to get interpreted correctly? It’s not going to work for me. I think I am going to have to rely on programming drums with a dedicated sequencer. This pedal is good to keep around for a metronome or basic 4/4 jam. I like it, but it is not going to work for what I need. If the unit did not try to “compensate” for bad timing . . . IE: do NOT try to play another part until the current one is done . . . It would have a fighting chance
Thanks for you help
Kevin
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Yeah, I get it. Quite disappointed with the bugs on the ONLINE Manager. Have to occasionally shut it down and restart for the new sequences to be loaded correctly. The concept of the unit is great, but I found if you vear to music outside of the 4/4 realm . . . . especially with lots of time signature inserts/changes, it becomes very difficult to work with.
Hey guys,
you’re more than helpful with your researches. I am still wondering, that features like different time signatures or becoming gradually slower have never been an issue to the developers for they are such common things. Personally the approach of having more than 3 or 4 songparts is not userfriendly (regarding Solsbury Hill). The risk of getting lost in the song structure for me as a live performer is too high as well as hitting the button on a specific bar count. Hopefully these features will be added,
I mean, I am playing lots of gigs with play alongs via Ableton, which is ok. But I do want to be free in choosing the length of song parts on my own. I did some songs where I programmed the whole song in one midi file. It works great but steals the freedom of live feeling.
I think it is common to use one bar method with BB if you have multiple time signatures within a song part
Do you think it’s too cumbersome to use it? Personally I haven’t tried it yet
I mean that if you know the exact moments where you want to decide should the song repeat section or continue to next section, is there any real downside of having the whole section in one bar? Other than the visual metronome not functioning And the fact that once that section starts you can’t miss your bar count
Exactly how I feel . . . and what I was hoping for with the BB. While I tried to keep the structures relatively simply for a live setting, having to hit the buttons at the “exact right time” is killing me.
It depends on the song. I would like to simply select “Verse” and “Chorus”, but it requires a very long bar . . . which there is nothing wrong with. But now I am getting into drum machine territory. I do like the unit, but it works best with a basic song. I will keep it for that purpose. In the meantime, I have ordered an MPC for composing drum parts as well as other sequenced parts. It will serve my purposes better.
I’ve been following this conversation, but have held off getting into it, mainly because I didn’t feel like attempting the song in the midst of other projects, but, I have taken a look at it, and I am getting a sense that you all might be overcomplicating it.
My first instinct was that this song would lend itself to a one-press version but then I noted that there was some desire to have some room for improvisation. I get that. I’ve downloaded a midi version which is not very good, but it does help me with structuring the parts, and I have an “as recorded” guitar transcription, which has been helpful it getting the time signature changes understood. I am curious as to how you are seeing the structure of the song. I am working off the roughly 3 minute 20 second studio version.
This is what I have, and how I would break it down, with my reasons:
First off, make sure that the cue fill settings are set for “Next Measure”. That way you can trigger any time with the bar without messing up. These are7/4 bars, so you have some time.
7/4 Intro section of BB Song) - The first 3 notes, only. (This is an unaccompanied bit, and should not loop. The loop begins on the downbeat of the next measure.)
7/4 into vamp, 2 measures (this can loop at the beginning of the song, and you can get the audience into it, or do intros, or whatever. This would be Main loop 1 transition when ready. This is a blank transition part, so the next will begin on the next measure after you trigger)
Verse 1 Main Loop 2 - 11 measures of 7/4. Vocal begins at the beginning of the “loop.” In Measure 11, trigger a fill.
Fill 1, 2 bars of 4/4 and 2 bars of 7/4 This is the transition at the end of the verse and the “bridge” between verses. Enter this part in the BB as a single measure of 22/4.
After fill 1, Main Loop 2 will repeat. This is verse 2, and it has the same structure as Verse 1. Trigger Fill 1 in measure 11 of verse 2. Again, this will take you to the beginning of Main Loop 2.
Verse 3, again has 11 bars of 7/4, but at the end of this, you will transition. This will take you to Main Loop 3, which is an Open ended vamp of 2 bars, just like the intro. When you are ready to end the song, transition (which is blank), and you are taken to the outro section, which is several bars of the loop, with a fade applied.
If this sounds like what you are looking for, let me know, and I can work it up as a drums with bass arrangement. I have it in B, but if you would like a different key, let me know.
This has been the thing we have been discussing. Although I didn’t take the deep dive to see the actual song structure
And I agree that it’s best to do as @Phil_Flood suggested
Using transition fill instead of a song part makes sense with some bridge but this is already four bars long so better to use a song part (especially because of the time signatures)
I may not be knowledgeable with all the different drum machines, but I believe BB is a drum machine Sure it has its limitations so I can see why one would want something different