How can i use midi sync with Voicelive 3 + ipad + Beatbuddy ?

Hi everyone.

Can anyone tell that how can i sync this 3 machines and work together?
I also have an another question too. Can i use midi sync with use only mini usb cable with Voivelive 3 and Beatbuddy?

It may help if you tell us how you want them setup, ie which is master etc.
USB on BB is only for use with manager on a PC or Mac, not for midi. Midi sync goes over the midi cable only, in or out.

It can be done. While I do not use the VL3, I send a midi message from Onsong to Sampletank on the IPAD to PUC + to change a patch to Beatbuddy to change songs to my Line 6 M9 to change scenes-all the while midi synching the BB/boomerang and M9 delays and modulation effects via tempo. You just need to set the BB to midi through.

Clearly i want to when i change the song “from ipad”, VL3 and BB changes songs too with using midi sync. So i want to learn which way the best to do that? TheBig E thank you for the answer to my other question.

So iPad is the master. What software are you using. I believe that something like Onsong (I forget the others) can be setup to send midi out when you select a song. You’d need to send midi for VL3 on one Midi channel and for the BB on another and have each machine only listen on that channel vs the more usual Omni. You could daisy chain them (ipad to VL3 to BB say) or use a midi splitter and have them in paralle from the ipad/spliter.

I think it is best to assign each a midi channel. I found when I tried to send a command to my effects pedal without a midi channel through BB via Omni it kept the command kept upsetting my boomerang looper. Once I assigned a channel to the command it worked fine.

Yes, if you are daisy chaining midi through multiple devices, each needs to be on it’s own channel unless you know a device can understand everything it receives or the data being sent is limited to standard midi. As soon as you start getting into the type of device specific CC’s that the BB and other devices use, you need to put each on their own channel and target the commands to each one from the master controller.

The best solution I have found is to use an app called Set List Maker (SLM) on the iPad. This app can act as the main controller for both the BB and VL3 (I have this same setup). SLM can send midi over different channels so you can send midi to the BB on one channel and to VL3 on another. Within SLM, when you select a particular song, it can send the required patch changes and BB song changes so that the BB and VL3 are both set correctly. You can use automation within SLM to start the BB and send the midi clock. This can be passed from the BB (using the midi through setting on the BB, I think) to the VL3 where it can be used to synchronise loops and delay rates on the VL3. You’ll have to play around with sending the midi clock on different channels - I can’t remember exactly how I set it up but I did get it to work eventually. There is a lot of scope for different configurations with this setup. One of the added benefits of using SLM is that you can play a backing track within the app for each song. And whilst that is playing you can record midi commands during the playback that can send guitar and voice changes to the VL3 as well as send fills and transitions to the BB if you want. Once recorded these midi commands are sent automatically during the playback of the backing track which means you can foucs on playing the guitar, singing, etc. whilst SLM takes care of vocal harmonies, guitar effects etc. A very powerful setup. I should add that you don’t have to have a backing track in SLM to record automation. You could use the BB as a reference when recording midi automation.

i have a problem with onsong (iPad 1) and beatbuddy for change the preset vía MIDI, when i setup Program on Onsong and i press “TEST” button do the job in the beatbudy… but then i change the song and doesnt work… :frowning: any advice? thanks

So when using BB as a reference when recording and playing midi automation from within SLM how do you insure for example that a change from a clean chorus guitar to a heavy lead guitar and then back to clean chorus changes at the exact time in a song? I assume you have midi clock on SLM sending to BB for tempo and then your song auto scrolls. I guess what I am asking is in the lyrics on the IPAD how is it that your singing and playing are matching up with the BB and the patch changes on your VL3 so there are no glitches in the performance Sorry if this is a silly question.

So when using BB as a reference when recording and playing midi automation from within SLM how do you insure for example that a change from a clean chorus guitar to a heavy lead guitar and then back to clean chorus changes at the exact time in a song? I assume you have midi clock on SLM sending to BB for tempo and then your song auto scrolls. I guess what I am asking is in the lyrics on the IPAD how is it that your singing and playing are matching up with the BB and the patch changes on your VL3 so there are no glitches in the performance Sorry if this is a silly question.

i’m using Onsong.
I have another question. What is your aux gain level for BB on VL3? and what is the phonejack volume on BB? because i need to fit BB to my vocal-guitar mix. Just i need that clue. Thanks

SLM does have a midi clock and this keeps the BB in sync. I have found that when the clock starts the BB starts but there might be other commands you could use to start and stop the BB (I haven’t got the manual with me). If you have an intro set up on the BB then that can be used as your reference start point for automation in SLM. As a backing track is unlikely to stay in sync it’s probably best to avoid using one and you’ll have to count the beats for any further automation points. In experiments I did I was using the beat for Rock and Roll by Led Zep so it was pretty clear where I was in the song. In SLM you can always adjust the position of the midi automation if it is too early or too later. I also tested automation to send transitions to the BB and that worked quite well. The problem with this set up is that you cannot easily run any backing tracks at the same time because they are unlikely to stay in sync with the BB unless they too are midi tracks. I don’t use the lyrics option in SLM but once the song timings are set and these are all synced with the automation and start and end of the song they should scroll accordingly (I think there is a scrolling option in SLM - I’ll have to check).

As for the audio, I didn’t feed the audio from the BB into VL3 but rather straight into MainStage running on a laptop - I also tried running it straight into a mixer. In another config I tested I didn’t use the BB but instead ran backing tracks in MainStage on a MacBook whilst still controlling both VL3 and MainStage from SLM on an old iPad. This worked really well but it was a little too much equipment. My ideal setup would be to use the BB as intended with different drum parts per song and a midi bass backing track that would stay in sync with the BB, would follow the chords of the song (or whatever pattern is programmed) but not be tied to the BB transitions so that the BB can move to different song parts at any time in the song as a real drummer might do without affecting the bass. I have really thought about using a second BB for bass only and having them both play in sync but I think that option is too expensive to try without the certainty of it working.

Thanks- So then I assume as you are playing you are visually following the chords/music in SLM because you can clearly see the parts of the song ie. intro, verse chorus , instrumental etc… and you have set up midi automation to change effects on your VL3 for certain parts of songs. Do you then visually follow the song and when you see you are about to move to the instrumental part- for example- that changes the guitar from clean to heavy lead - do you manually push the trigger for your preset automation trigger on the IPAD in SLM with your finger?

I used to play in a 3-piece band (nothing serious) and had to learn the songs by heart including lyrics, chords, structure etc. and we all had to stick to the same structure because we were not experienced enough to allow for improvisations and diversions away from the recorded version. So, my point is, I know many of the songs I practice with the BB by heart and don’t use SLM for structure and lyrics. However I think SLM has, like OnSong (which I have also used), many features for lyrics and structure that you can use as a guide. As for moving the guitar from clean to heavy lead, that is done in SLM with the automation. I also used it to turn on / off harmony on the VL3. So the way this would work is 1) On the iPad (by hand) I select the song on SLM and this automatically sets the correct preset on VL3 and the BB (or MainStage if using backing tracks). 2) On the iPad (by hand): kick off the song on SLM - this starts automation which kicks off the BB or the backing track. 3) SLM automation takes care of harmony and guitar changes throughout the song whilst I concentrate on playing and singing. That’s the idea. I must admit that I prefer to use the setup with backing tracks (including drums) than with the BB because I can’t find an easy way to sync backing tracks (bass, piano etc.) with the BB but I am working on a solution. A simple midi player app on the iPad that can sync with the BB would work - then I could route the audio into the VL3 aux.

Thanks for your work flow. I use Onsong and have just discovered the automation to do the same thing you do in SLM. I do not use VL3 but use a boomerang and a Line 6 M9. I just discovered I can control the M9 guitar patches on the M9 in Onsong along with sending the tempo and auto starting the BB and auto scrolling the song. Then, like you, I just discovered at certain points in the song, ONSONG can automatically send patch changes to my M9 so I too can focus on singing and playing. (Similar to you with VL3). I too send a midi change to my M9 so my patches change automatically at the beginning of each song which has been a great time saver. I primarily use Op songs in BB so next I am trying to get the automation part down to change my patches “within” the song and I am finding that part to be a little more interesting. That is why I was asking you questions. My work flow is this: In onsong, I push start with my finger on IPAD. This sends the BPM info and an auto start command to BB via bluetooth via a PUC+. The song starts playing. Onsong then slowly Autoscrolls. When it hits a certain part in the song, within Onsong, like the Chorus, I can set it to automatically trigger a midi command to change to a specific patch on my M9. I can also manually push the song part with my finger to trigger the change too. For me the automatic part is nice but I have found that if I loop an intro a little too long on BB before playing the OP part my lyrics and song parts do not always match up. My M9 only provides me with 3 effects at one time. But with this method of loading patches via onsong I can easily load what is called scenes and it then can easily give me access quickly to many more than 3 effects (not that most songs need that). But sometimes triggering a wah and delays on/off on the M9 can make me have to tap dance too much and think too much. Thanks for sharing.

Thanks for explaining your workflow. I am really interested because when I was in the band I used OnSong for lyrics and sets and therefore have all the songs we did in there (I only transferred a handful to SLM). One thing I couldn’t work out in OnSong was how to know when to send a midi command mid song - how do you get the timing right. I get how you kick off the BB by touching the screen but when you get to the chorus how do you know where you are in OnSong? Is there a time associated with midi commands? Also one other question - do you use a backing track, play BB with bass, or just BB with drums only? Thanks for your help.

I have the same issue as you for perfect timing on sending the midi commands on the IPAD to trigger the guitar effects. I do not use backing tracks I only use BB. I like your idea to somehow use a timeline (using a literal time marker with min. and seconds) in Onsong. If you had this you may be able to play it through and nail where the midi commands trigger in and out. I’m going tot write Onsong developers to suggest this. For now it is only helpful to use auto scroll feature that automatically triggers the command (approximately) when it reaches what Onsong calls a section i.e Intro: Verse 1: Chorus: etc…

It would be interesting if one day Bass and drum midi tracks could be played on the IPAD and then trigger the kits on the BB pedal and then also trigger other bass notes wave files from another ipad program but somehow with foot control. I also l think the new drum kit that places drums on the left channel in BB and the drums on the right so you can isolate each sound has some potential. Thanks for the dialog on work flows etc…

Update from Onsong Support: Ill try it out and report back.

Thanks for using OnSong!

I would suggest looking at using Timeline for autoscrolling instead as that allows you to record exactly when a section would be selected. thus auto-triggering a midi event. In addition, you can go back and adjust precisely in time when a recorded event occurs:

Hope that helps!

Update- quick test- using the “timeline” tool in ONSONG it does appear to be able to use a time based method to record and send midi events to your devices at specified times. For example you can pre-record midi events in what ONSONG calls sections. You then set up your entire song using these sections and midi events where your external devices such as guitar effects or keyboard patch changes will turn on off or change. You then set the auto scroller to auto trigger - on. Next you enter TIMELINE and press start recording. You then press a BB one-press song to start (not on BB- but in Onsong). Then the ONsong auto scroller start and BB starts- the time is stamped. Onsong then slowly auto scrolls while in record mode. Once you get to the place in the song where you need a patch change - click the preprogrammed section with midi command. That change is then written into the onsong timeline and stamps it with a minutes and seconds marker. Do this whereever you need a program change. When the song ends click stop recording. Now when you click start again in Onsong- the recorded one press BB song will play from start to finish all the while auto selecting all of your program changes on your devices at the exact time that you just recorded. This also works with a backing track played out of Onsong. It seemed to work but the down side it is tedious to have to pre-program the changes in your sections ahead of time and then to play through your song while recording. Also - I did encounter a few little glitches I have to work out. However, it does appear to possibly serve a purpose perhaps for production mode on more complex songs if I can get the intermittent glitchy parts worked out .

Here is a more complicated song I hope to use this song to automate so you can see my workflow: Can’t you see- Marshall Tucker Band. I am a one man band. I record the simple clean 4 chord loop with guitar to start. I then have to quickly press a ABY switcher to play the keyboard part which is routed through a midi guitar- B channel. Then at the right time I press the ABY switch off of keys to change the clean tone to Channel A - which then goes to a slightly distorted small lead guitar part on my line 6 pedal. I have a midi controlled ABY switcher and my Line 6 is controlled via midi too. So for a more complicated song like this that takes some tap dancing I hope to automate the ABY switcher and my effects pedal and keyboard patches in Sampletank so I do not have to think about doing all of this while trying to sing and play.

Kinda crazy perhaps but I would only need this automation for a few songs in my sets as most songs do not need all of this stuff.