Midi Clock and Quantization

I would really like the Aeros to sync to midi clock with quantization and continue to record quantized when the midi clock changes all within the same song.
IMHO this is fundamental but is still pending and I’m not sure why. Before I sell the aeros out of frustration, I’d like a better understanding of where this fits on the roadmap if possible.
Thanks

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All I know right now is they’re working on extending recording time for the next firmware, then after that they said midi implementation… not sure on your post though (maybe someone will know more), but I am with you on the frustration part. Love the unit but it’s still half-baked and I hate waiting months for stuff that should have already been in it, but I’m trying to be patient but it’s hard. I want the midi implementation and reverse / speed options and I would be happy with it 100%. :smiley:

Hi there, to answer your question, if you want a unit that records to fluctuating tempo (i.e. has a tempo map) you may never find what you’re looking for in a pedal. The complexity of tempo maps being written to the Aeros is not on the roadmap and many not even be possible. Still, it may be something we consider very far down the line.

At the end of the day this is only a looper, it cannot replace the flexibility and power of a full computer setup. We do hope to look into requantization (with no pitch change) and allowing multiple tempos once we have finished auto-quantized mode. As far as being able to record to fluctuating tempo that requires writing tempo as a timeline, that may or may not be doable, but I cannot say, will ask Devs.

Sorry to hear this is your make or break feature, we don’t take offense at people using the gear that works best for them :slight_smile:

Thanks for the request

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I would really love to know what device you’ve found that can do this … where will you go to next if you sell the Aeros? (I’m not asking this to be facetious … I’d really like to know)

I understand the desire for the request, but I’m forced to agree with Brennan, this is extremely tall request and I’m not entirely certain it is even possible, but would love to know if anyone has doen it (and done it well). From my understanding, when a device syncs to MIDI Clock, it doesn’t know what the tempo coming in is until it samples a few cycles of the data, at which time any wave forms you have recorded become wavy gravy. And then there is the whole task of time-stretching in real-time if the aim is to preserve the pitch (not sure that’s what you are asking or not, but it goes hand in hand with these sorts of requests).

A baby step however might be being able to recognize different tempos and/or time signatures for each part in a song (set up in advance), so the unit can do immediate shifts during a part change. That would have helped me out on a few things already. However, if using external MIDI clock, you’d still want to coordinate the change with your external device. I’d do that with a single command from a MIDI controller … not sure how well it would work out though not having any real-world ability to observe this sort of thing myself … well, other than the catastrophe that always results)

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Oh. Thank you for the replies but I think way to much was read into what I was requesting.
I just want the midi clock tempo to be able to be changed and be able to record to that new tempo,;without having to manually change the song tempo on the Aeros ( Currently it seems you cannot do that without audio drop outs or other weirdness (i.e. if the midi clock is not set to the same tempo as the song).
I do not care what happens to the audio. I am not asking for time stretching or any other advanced feature(s). In fact, I’d most likely clear all audio in the aeros and then shift the incoming midi clock and start over. And repeat. I cannot do this currently with the aeros. Currently I have to set the tempo of a song manually in the aeros to match the incoming midi clock AFAIK from using the aeros.
I just want the aeros to record properly when I provide a new off the cuff tempo to it. Several other loopers do this no problem. Like say i am jamming with another musician, I tap tempo a new midi clock tempo into the aeros, but it’s song tempo is set to a different bpm. Currently I get audio drop outs etc. I’d like that fixed if possible please.
I will say I am not being critical, but I see the overall trend of the aeros as having a very complex workflow that fits into the model of complex song/pre-recorded song structures/ song playback device etc… more than a straight “looper”. Which is fine; it’s just a few basic things over the last year that have made it hard to use in the more general more straightforward “looper” sense. Anyways thanks.

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Oh, I completely misunderstood your request, definitely.

Thanks. Is what I’m asking now make sense? I can just say as a user that the other loopers I have used (quiet a few) all do this as I would expect. The aeros does not. Am I missing something? I would have expected this to have been fixed in the last year or so… but AFAIK it has not.
Instead as I mentioned (and I would feel when others have mentioned this), complicated “this won’t work in the complicated workflow we have worked out” explanations etc are given.
I’m fine with that and don’t want to be a hater, but I am trying to objectively decide if this is going to be a device for more general looping, as I would understand it, and I think it can be, but first a basic thing like this needs to get sorted. IMHO way before a complicated workflow option was to get implemented.
But again perhaps I am not articulating this well enough here. My experience with it is pretty straightforward: Aeros has song BPM set at 100, Midi clock is set at 130… record, delete recordings, change midi clock to 145, record again. Currently I do not feel this is possible without audio drop outs. Is that correct?

Yeah, I get it and it makes sense. It’s been discussed before and I’d really appreciate it myself if the Aeros could adjust to the incoming clock without having to first match it’s internal tempo to the external tempo. For the same reasons that you describe.

Thanks! I appreciate your time to have read all that and understand. Have fun with your music!

Hi there,

The Aeros works this way currently yes. Audio dropouts only happen when there is a mismatch like you stated above. Once the Aeros is cleared, the tempo can be easily changed.

I will have to disagree, this is not by any means basic. Think about this: the audio has to retain three things: its quantization point in ticks, its pitch, and its quality. Audio is not like MIDI that it is easily manipulable in this way. This requires complex audio algorithms that change the Audio to reflect a new tempo. This will not always sound good especially when pushing audio to extremes, especially if it is recorded faster and slowed down.

Ableton, for example, can handle this but it also has easy to reach parameters and different algorithms for different source materials, this is access we could not easily implement in the UI and MIDI commands would not be very user friendly without a robust MIDI command center. We are also comparing a powerful computer to a looper at that point, I wish we could say the Aeros works like a top of the line laptop but that is unrealistic, it has limits to its design.

None of what I’m saying here is saying we don’t wish to take a dive into adaptive tempo changes of already existing audio, but due to its complexity and likelihood that we never really get to a good-sounding algorithm it is not a priority and likely can be considered a possible future feature, given it works.

Feel free to try other loopers that give you this option if this if your make or break feature.

Thanks for the request.

“The Aeros works this way currently yes. Audio dropouts only happen when there is a mismatch like you stated above.” - Ok thanks.
And a sarcastic thank you for the mansplaining explanation of audio timing and midi, but you actually have no idea of my expertise in audio or midi.
I realize you most likely did not read fully what I wrote, but I did clearly state I did not care what happened to the audio. Period. But you insist on still bringing this complex audio tempo morphing topic up, which yes, is not basic.
However having a device sync to an external midi clock, is, for most midi capable devices without having to change the devices internal tempo setting to match. EHX, pigtronix, Boomerang, Looperlative, Electrix, have all implemented midi this proper way and the aeros team has not. Again, that’s fine if that is clear, but it is unexpected behavior. It’s not like any midi capable drum machine I know of has to have it’s internal tempo set to match the incoming midi clock if set to sync to external.
The AKAI MPC’s do handle audio and external clock the way you state, they do have complex audio warping algorithm’s similar to ableton and they do sync to external midi clock in the way that I requested.
So does another “looping device” the synthstrom deluge, it’s also loops and correctly warps audio and it’s tempo to external midi clock.
These devices are comparably in the same price park as the aeros. The aeros does not do these complex things, and I would not expect it to, nor have I requested that it do so. Instead I’d rather it be a awesome straight up audio looper.
Thanks for your time. So much beating around the bush for such a simple thing, but two can play that game. I will be leaving this forum now.

If you misread my explanation as talking down to you, I apologize. There are many users who do not understand the complexities, and I do not assume anyone to know anything, that is part of what I need to do; I must make my responses clear and easy to understand for users that are knowledgable on the subject, like yourself, and users who have no idea how any of it works.

I did fully read what you wrote, if you feel I have misunderstood you, it is possible we are misunderstanding each other.

Your first post read as though seemed you wanted a tempo map with adaptive behavior, you then clarified that the adaptive behavior would only be after recording to a clock. Is this not the case, did I miss something?

I would challenge your statement about the loopers mentioned, because the Aeros does automatically match the incoming tempo and time signature (time signature only if using BeatBuddy) if the song is cleared or empty. Due to our current workload, we cannot spend the time needed to create the proper algorithm that will (almost universally) work on already recorded program material to adjust previously recorded audio to incoming external clock.

Since you seem invested, to further explain: The reason the dropouts happen is the Aeros resyncs at every beat with the BeatBuddy keeping serious audio drifts from happening. So, when you change the tempo the Audio is already being affected, but because we have not built the “warping” behavior the audio misbehaves. So in essence, it is the superior behavior that keeps drifts from happening in normal usage with many other MIDI sync capable pedals that is causing this unpleasant behavior when internal and external tempos do not match.

On another note, the Akai MPC is also not a hand-free looper and is 100 dollars more, so it does not seem a fair comparison, they have the ability to let the user do easy granular changes with the large footprint and many knobs and buttons.

Hope that clarifies things, let me know if I misunderstood, thank you!