Missing the non-beat-buddy-acoustic-realtime-performer features

Aeros Loop Studio Feature Requests
1

Background

I’ve been multitrack looping for many years and have got all the boss devices (RC30, 300, 505), ditto X4, EHX 22500 and even the Headrush flagship and some others . I’ve never had an Infinity nor a Boomerang. The latter one was never available in Europe.

When I bought the Aeros 4 weeks ago I was completely disappointed first. After joining this forum and downloading the firmware 2.17.x I got some hope the find what I was looking for: A small and intelligent device that provides what the acoustic community is waiting for for years.

I’ve collected the following needs from dozens of workshops held with (acoustic) guitarists and singers in the past 5 years. All of them played guitar, some had a additional microphone and none used a beat buddy. Instead, they usually use their instrument or voice for rhythm parts. Trying to descibe needs and not explicitly how to implement them.

(Acoustic) live performer needs in a nutshell

  • A : Ongoing basic tracks over different parts for those who do not use rhythm devices
  • B : Sophisticated start/stop behavior. This is one of the most important option to create dynamic and versatile performances
  • C: Reliable delete options to correct faults and erase tracks for various purposes
  • D: Song parts of different lengths (and not only 2, 4, 8 relations as Roland believes to make us happy with)

What we do and what features we are expecting in Detail

  1. First loop is often a basic track, typically a rhythm part (1, 2 or 4 measures) for the whole song, irrespective of a song part. If I’ve understood this correctly, you call it lock track. Please implement this immediately, this is crucial!

  2. This basic track with free tempo and length should be considered like it was a properly recorded based on a predefined tempo and rhythm with a metronome (beat box instead of beat buddy :blush:).
    Furthermore, when it comes to quantization I completely subscribe what @LaurentB describes in «New hybrid mode between freeform and quantized» earlier.
    RC505, X4 and Headrush do support this.

  3. Additionally, at least two song parts should be supported (which is available by 2x2). I’ve got no application for 6x6. However, 4x4 would be nice. This fits to most of known applications (intro, A, B, bridge). Why not add 4x4 or a free choice of [loops] x [parts]?

What many players often do is to stop a song part while the rhythm part goes on. There are many different reasons for this: dynamic change, fill in, interaction, play a bridge, play some additional bars exceptionally, etc.

Behavior after intermediately stopping a song (all tracks) in 2x2 mode

  1. The restart of a stopped song part should work differently depending of on the above reasons:
    a. start from the beginning («from beginning» mode) or
    b. continue stopped/muted track as if it had been going on silently («unmute» mode) or
    c. continue where it was stopped («continue» mode)
    Currently Aeros does only support b. Please implement the above «start track after stop» modes
    Obviously, this should be applicable at least per song.

  2. Click onto the song "start/stop all" button should start all tracks of the active part, irrespective of muted or not.

  3. Click onto one a specific track button should start this track only, if loop is already recorded in play mode, otherwise in record mode. If you do not like to change the Aeros standard behavior (=overdub mode) add a song setting option the chose this, please.
    Currently, Aeros starts both tracks. This is not what the players intention is by clicking on one track only and is a redundant to 5.

  4. Click onto both tracks should start both tracks as above. This means, if one track is already recorded it should start in play mode while the other empty one should start in record mode.
    Currently Aeros is behaving similar, however, the length of the previously empty track is limited to the same length of recorded one. This seems to be a bug as the length is not limited if doing so without stopping before.

These are standard features of Roland, EHX, X4 and Headrush

Behavior after stopping a track (while other tracks are playing)

  1. The default mode should be play mode, not overdub (why not providing a song parameter for this).

  2. Many performers would like to delete a stopped/muted track without any (or almost no) sound (while other tracks are playing) in order to prepare.

  3. After deleting a track it should behave like never being recorded before. This is not the case in some situations (seems to be a bug).

These are standard features of Roland, EHX, X4 and Headrush

Changing song parts

  1. Option to switch parts in a quantized way even though track quantization is «off» . It (mostly) doesn’t make sense to change parts in the middle of a track. Shouldn’t there be quantization with regards to track and another one with regards to parts? Or a global or song setting like “change part at the end of a loop”?

  2. If recording part 1 first and then switching to record part 2 not only parts are changing but also tracks. This seems to be a bug.

Some hands-free live performer options

  1. Live performers appreciate different song settings for different song types without any sound content. This is what Aeros is aiming to pretty well. However, have a look at Roland RC505 (also EHX 22500 in parts), they are some steps ahead.

  2. In stopped song mode it should be possible to delete the whole song content as well as a specific track without any hearing any sound. (e.g. by pressing two buttons start/stop all and part selection).

  3. The option to determine the functionality of the buttons would be a nice feature. I’d prefer the to exchange the start/stop all and the track selection button for example.

I really do appreciate to be part of a “enhanced developer team” to create a great product. Happy to bring in more details … even with my non native English.

11 Likes
2

Excellent write up. There’s a lot of great ideas.

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I do not understand why there is this imposed mode 6x6. A looper is made to create, an evolutionary mode would be more appropriate [loops] x [parts]

4

Great points for live performers. “Basic tracks” across parts are important … and fully agree with stop/mute/restart requirements. It’s not number of layers that make the difference, it’s the variation of songs through pauses, stopping, muting and restarting tracks.

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5

Ok so here goes a big response!

This is the basis of lock tracks, I see that you want this feature “immediately” but the next feature we will be focused on is MIDI implementation, followed by lock tracks. We understand this is not ideal for your work flow, but MIDI implementation will present possible solutions to a lot of the other limitations you and other users are experiencing. One of these possible solutions would be to use a MIDI controller with reaction on the press to make stop/start immediate and “sophisticated” as you put it.
As to erasing, we are looking into how to best solve the track undo issues, and are looking into possibly allowing you to clear individual tracks per song part.
Song parts do not have to have the same song length currently, have you encountered this as an issue?

Auto quantization is something we are keen on implementing soon, probably after we look into increasing loop limits.

This is an idea we’ve had but it is not a simple implementation, and 6x6 in many ways functions like 4x4 would, there are features we plan on adding like immediate next part changes (like what happens in 2x2) that would make using 6x6 a little less clunky than it currently is.

This is how it works with the footswitch “pause” on the BeatBuddy, I know you are talking about non-beatbuddy usage, but there is a physical limitation to what the Aeros can do. This comes from a crucial meeting of needs.
We want the Aeros to be accessible to both pro users (like yourself) and novices. A novice would not likely need many of the features a pro would, and is using the Aeros as it comes, not expecting it to become something else. This is why we made the MIDI Maestro, for expandability. The Maestro will soon be able to control practically all of the Aeros functions, making it so that all functions are accessible on the press versus release. We understand that you may not like us telling you that you need to buy another product to make the Aeros fully usable in your specific case, but what professional audio set-up does not do exactly the same?

The option of expandability is there, but it is not a given, and it costs to get perfection. You’re comparing the Aeros to the Headrush, but the price points are much different, and the Headrush is a behemoth with too much functionality and a confusing loop UX (as far as I’m concerned). The price point comes close once you pair the Aeros with either the BeatBuddy or Maestro, but you get a simpler mechanism and further hand-free utilization.

This is an interesting request we may look into implementing down the line.

I don’t believe the Aeros allows tracks within a song part to play independently, this has to do with the UX scroll which is integral to the unit, what you’re suggesting is a totally different looper, I’ll ask about it but I would not expect it to happen anytime soon, if it can.

Are you sure you’re not just using the sync settings? If you don’t want the loop to be the same size, turn sync length off. With it on, yes the loops will be forced to follow rules on loop length once playback is initiated.

This goes back to the Aeros functionality limits, tracks cannot be playing while others are not.

The Aeros can undo a muted track.

You can switch parts in a quantized way, please go to Device settings (global) and turn “Change Song Part/Stop” to End of Loop instead of immediate/end of measure

We have had many requests so far for pre-set lengths so we will probably look into it soon.

We are working on deleting options, but this is an interesting suggestion.

I agree it would be nice, but this is what the MIDI Maestro is intended to do.

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6

Would it help to think of this as a form of “mute” .(mute everything else) and start?

Would it help to have this feature on the mixer screen? (Sort of a second class approach, but perhaps workable for some people)

In general, Aeros is limited by design/implementation choices of the UI, buttons, and scroll wheel. It’s not going to get better by incremental changes. Many great ideas are going to be discounted because of this general challenge. @DavidPackouz I worked out a solution to this over the weekend that addresses this issue … and it’s compatible with real-time button down actions. Nothing related to the above. PM me if you want the gory details.

7

If you have your track recorded, in the current Beta (will be live very soon!) you can select mute all and unmute the track you want to playback from the mixer screen. This may be solvable by implementing a solo feature as well, I don’t agree that the fix will require such an overhaul, there is more than one solution to every problem.

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@BrennanSingularSound

Yes, mute via the mixer screen was the suggestion and is workable with some small changes. I think you misunderstood and perhaps discounted the last comments though.

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Upfront, thanks for responding in-depth. That’s really great :slight_smile:
Get back with some detailled answers.

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10

Hey, thanks for supporting this!!

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I suspect that I’ve brought in too many points into one single request.

What I’ve learnt in addition is that you are going to provide lock tracks soon. What is the timeline for this roughly?

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12

Another learning: It might be helpful to point out issues rather than concrete requirements or feature requests. Let’s try and resume the most important restart after stop topic.

Example in 2x2 mode: Track 1 is recorded, track 2 also. After some choruses I’d like to stop the song (for dynamic/musical reasons) and then restart track 1 only (taking in account that track 2 would also restart in muted mode). I’m not able to manage this with less than 3 clicks and some unwanted notes in addition.

Ex 1: Click on track 2 (restarts all, track 2 in overdub mode) + click on track 2 again for changing to play mode + double click on track 2 for muting it.
Ex 2: Click on start/stop all + double click on track 2
Ex 3: Click on
All options take much to long are risky in a live performance

What I would prefer: Single click on track 1 for starting it in play mode. Is there a solution for this now or one of the next releases?

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Hi, this is not meant as an issue. It’s listed as 1 out of 4 basic features. Happy to have this available.

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Thanks. I missed this during testing

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Usually, looping beginners are keen on building up as many layers as possible and have some tracks for this. Most of the multitrack devices are good at this. And this is what sounds then like all that looper stuff.

Please do not take this as your benchmark. This is basic. What we are expecting is a device that supports creative ideas and provides flexibility to not sound the same again. If there is an expansion needed, then that’s the way it is. Nevertheless, it’s sexy to use the one and only small device for adhoc sessions, parties, etc. working on a 9V battery pack :slight_smile:

About marketing and prices: The Headrush street price in Europe is only 10% above Aeros … and size matters - on our pedalboards.

16

I forgot to mention there is a “Press” function for the Stop/play all, and that will make starts and stops immediate and not on the release. As far as playing track at different times, we actually don’t like this about the HeadRush, it’s confusing. We far prefer mute options.

If you record track 2 as an overdub instead, you can undo the track (long press) while it is stopped and it wont play when you restart.

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I’d say about a month while we finish the MIDI update and then do Lock tracks.

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18

Thanks. Sounds good! This is worth waiting.

19

Thanks Brennan. I appreciate your quick answers and your responsiveness.

Proposal doesn’t work if track 1 and 2 have different lenghts. (and this is the case with beat on track 1)

Again, I do not understand the workflow behind the Aeros implementation when it Comes to restart.

What I’m used to and what I’m expecting: Start/Stop all restarts all tracks (like Aeros does). Restart track 1 should make track 1 sound, not both. And it should restart in play mode instead of overdub. As soon as a track is loaded playback priority is higher than overdub when restarting.

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Again, this is against the integral nature of the Aeros. The UX scroll will not work with tracks playing at different times. The overdub command is there because the play function is mean to playback a recording, not start the track from a stopped point.
The Play/Stop all button is the only button on the Aeros that starts playback from a stopped state.
You can also record to and undo track 2 before it starts playback again. You can redo it and it will resume playing.