Perfect Layout for Live Looping

Hi Friends

I made an layout how (in my opinion) the Aeros would be the best tool for Live Looper Singer Songwriter guys who are building Loopes live without any pre recorded stuff AND most important have real control over anything.

This Button layout is meant to work with Synced Freeform (No Tempo predefined but the tracks are multiples) or Quantisised Mode. Of course it can be used in total Freeform too. The Button behavior stays same for 2X2 and 6X6.

Behavior of the Buttons:

Play/Stop All Button:

Single Tap

  • Stop playback of all Tracks

  • Resume playback of all Tracks

Double Tap

  • Immediately stop playback of all Tracks

Hold when playing!!!

  • Ques Overdub on the next pressed Track button

Hold when stopped

  • Delete Everything

Select Part Button:

Single Tap

  • Select next song Part

Hold

  • Open the Mixer

Track Buttons::

- Single Tap

  • Start recording ( if track is blank)

  • Stop (NOT MUTE!)

  • Press again when stopped -> Start playback next time any other Track restarts

  • Press again when all Tracks are stopped -> Track stars alone

Double Tap

  • NO FUNCTION!!!

Hold while playing

  • Undo most recent layer

  • Continue to hold: undo 2nd layer

  • If all layers undone or just one layer was recorded: erase Track

  • NO REDO

Hold while Recording

  • Erase Track without playback (IMPORTANT in case of fucked up record :wink: )

Hold while stopped

  • Erase Track

Mixer stays as it is.
This way you can select if you want to mute a track (in Mixer Mode) or Stop it. This is super important if I for example have Rhythm on track 1 and stopped track 2 for talking to people or let them clap or whatever and then start loop two when I want without being forced to look where the loops stratpoint is.

With this layout you have total control over all important functions without any double tap. I know there is no REDO but if you need this functionality just use 6X6 Mode and you have enough tracks. Deleting and getting rid of things fast is MUCH more important in live use if something goes wrong.

This would be my dream Looper :smiley: What you you think?

2 Likes

I think this highlights why having users be able to choose what functions each button press does would be ideal. For example, I would use a very similar setup, but with the following changes:

SELECT PART:
1 press: select track (6x6 mode would move between 1+2, 3+4, 5+6…so A, B,and C section)
2 presses: play/stop track immediately
Hold: open mixer

TRACK BUTTONS:
1 press: record on blank track, then play/stop with sequential presses
2 presses: undo/redo
Hold while playing: overdub
Hold while stopped: erase track

The ability to easily stop and play a track makes a “play next song part” button unnecessary. If synced free form is built correctly, you should be able to press stop at any point during a track then go to a different track and press play at any point and the parts should switch seamlessly once the master track stops. I think maintaining the same functions between the track buttons on 2 x 2 mode and 6 x 6 mode is important, with the exception of the select part button going from select track to select group A, B, C (this also can potentially turn 2x2 mode into a 4, 6, etc mode).

1 Like

Hi guys, sorry for the late response – these kinds of posts always take me a bit of time to get my head wrapped around it. So let me break it down…

@Bogii

First of all, I’m not sure why you say ‘no redo’ when you already use the current system of hold to undo – you can just hold again to redo, as it is now.

You want a single tap on the track button to Stop (not mute) - my understanding is that the difference between stop and mute is that when starting the loop again it would restart at the ‘loop seam’ instead of immediately. We are building a setting to control when ‘mute/unmute’ happens: Immediately, end of measure, end of loop. This will take care of this issue – it will also make double tapping to mute much easier since you can do it well in advance of the mute time.

We will also be building a RPM mode so you can trade the overdub function for a single tap mute function.

You changed the overdub from a single tap on the track button to a two step system where you first hold the play/stop all button and then press the track button – this would, in my opinion, be very cumbersome and slow. You want to be able to overdub with as few extra steps as possible.

The advantage of your overdub system is that it allows you to keep the overdub function while using the RPM mode and it allows the track buttons to be used to start the track on it’s own (solo) when you press it while the looper is stopped. We do plan to add a ‘solo’ feature to the mixer, where when you hold the mute button in the mixer down it solos the track – you can do this either while the looper is playing or while it’s stopped. I think this makes it more powerful (since you can solo while playing), though a two step process (open the mixer, solo the track) - but I think that overdub is a much more commonly used function than solo, so overdub should be a single action, if we had to choose between the two.

So the real trade off here is double tap to mute (stop) vs hold down [play/stop all] and then press [track] to overdub. I think that once the mute at the end of measure/loop is implemented you’ll find that you’d rather do a quick double tap on the track than a hold one button and press another. But we’ll see.

Everything else is the same, as far as I can tell. The Aeros treats Undo like erase track – just with the option of redo. So if you hold while recording it will undo, same if you hold while stopped.

@bryanrtyler

I’m not sure I understand your system… do you mean to split the 6 tracks into 3 song parts of 2 tracks each? You are still cycling through 3 song parts with a button press. With 6x6 you can have just 3 song parts and it will be the same, except you have up to 6 tracks in each song part.

Track button: if your single press plays/stops the track, then 2 presses to undo/redo will first play/stop and then on the second press it will realize that you meant o undo/redo. This means you can’t stop and play a track quickly or it will think to do an undo/redo.

To be honest I don’t see the advantage of your system because it doesn’t eliminate the double tap or hold commands, it just rearranges them. You may have a personal preference for what double tap or hold does, but it doesn’t streamline the overall operations.

Hi David,
It streamlines the operation because it puts emphasis on what is actually useful in a looper. Play/stop should never take multiple taps because they are the most used functions on a multitrack looper- this is why there have been so many complaints about it, and why pretty much all other multitrack loopers don’t require this.

Double taps should be time-based- you set a millisecond requirement for a double tap to be read as two presses rather than one. An adjustable time length for a double tap to trigger a MIDI command is how most programmable MIDI controllers work and make this function possible without confusing it for play/stop.

The existence of six song tracks within six song parts is great in theory, but extremely problematic with only four buttons on the unit, and mostly redundant with the inclusion of undo/redo as they basically add an additional track with each track they’re present on. It will be a far greater use to be able to have more individual track control, hence having six tracks that function the same as song parts that you can switch between two at a time with the select part button and then have much more control over using the middle and right buttons as I outlined.

Having 36 possible tracks with only one button to control them is of no use in live quantized freeform looping. It would be far better to have the option to choose 2 tracks, 4 tracks, 6 tracks, etc. that you can switch between using the song part button and then have far greater control of two tracks at a time. The fact that mute at the end of a measure wasn’t implemented long before now- before the product was even introduced to market- makes me question how much time was spent using well-known multitrack loopers like the Boomerang, Looperlative, RC-50, etc., as that function is absolutely vital to song structure looping. If this unit is meant to exist as a standalone looper that does not require a BeatBuddy or a MIDI Maestro to function fully, as it is advertised to be, then either the buttons need to be user programmable or a lot more thought needs to go into how they are implemented for live use. If you don’t already have some of the other quality multi track loopers like a Boomerang or a Looperboard around to see what they’ve figured out is vital in a live looping setup, download LoopyHD (it’s inexpensive) to see how much can be done with just a couple button and tracks.

3 Likes

Hi guys. There is so much value from @bryanrtyler and @Bogii in this request that I absolutely support. Isn’t there a more efficient way to align requirements/ideas/opinions. How about involving some guys into a live session?

When it comes to differentiation:
Please focus on handling and support our creativity before investing to much into marketing features like 6x6. Flexible workflows before superlatives!
And good things must not be reinvented.

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