The beginning of the loop is missing

Aeros Loop Studio Help, Questions and Bugs
1

Hi all,

When i record a loop the beginning of my loop is systematically missing, when i start on the beat or from stop… the only way is to anticipate the beat or with he count down…

It seems there is a big latency when you do rec… i play straigth on the beat, i never had this problem with my others loopers…

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2

What firmware version does it say you have in the ‘updates’ menu option? Can you upload a video of this happening?

4

Hi,

I use the last update 2.13.2

thanks for your help

(Attachment test rec3.mov is missing)

5

Hi,
I use 2.13.2

Thanks

test rec3.mp4.zip (1.69 MB)

6

I’ve seen this same issue when you switch on or just after the beat. The lateness forgiveness thing kicks in to switch parts, but it doesn’t move the audio recorded since the beginning of the measure, it just starts at the time of transition.

7

Yes, it doesnt move the audio but there is a little hole at the beginning of the loop… with hight tempo like 150, 160…

For me its typically rec latency…

8

That’s, what I mean–the hole is there because it didn’t move the audio (within the lateness forgiveness region) to the new song part. It starts the recording fresh, leaving a gap from the beginning of the measure.

9

Hi!
I’m new to the forum and also quite new to Aeros (had the device less than a month now) but I have seen that happening many times! It is exactly how mdb described it. There is just a cap in the recording and the cap is for sure longer than my timing of hitting the record button. I can’t say I have used a lot of loopers but I do own also Boss RC-3 and there the recording is ALWAYS bang on. When ever there is something wrong with the loop on Boss, I clearly made a mistake on my own. So I think this a sadly a bug on Aeros.

I can’t pinpoint or give exact ways to reproduce the problem but I can say that it usually happens more often when:

  • First recording a track, undoing it and recording again on the same track
  • When switching parts and the “auto recording” starts
  • In general places where the recording starts immediately and you try to hit on the beat

It doesn’t seem to happen ever when there is clear count in before the recording start (hitting rec clearly before the bar or having some initial count in). Odd thing is that the delay/cap seems to be always about the same length…

I’m running version: 2.13.2

10

As @JaredSmythe said, this sounds like it’s caused by the forgiveness lag. If you hit the record button a fraction of a second after the measure passes, you’ll start recording immediately but the loop will close at the end of the last measure, leaving a ‘hole’ in the track between the beginning of the first measure and when you actually started recording. In a future update we’ll include a setting to turn off the forgiveness lag - though of course, you’ll need to be more precise then.

If you don’t think this is the cause, please post a video of this issue happening so we can figure it out.

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11

So forgiveness, forgives the measure, but does not forgive the recorded sound from that period?

Wondering if some sort of Tivo like feature would work where the Aeros can also forgive the recorded sound. That is, the Aeros is listening and saving the audio temporarily. If it forgives the button press, it pulls in that temporary audio into the recording.

Not 100% sure this would be useful in practice more often than not.

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12

No the loop is cut at the beginning, you can see it clearly on the waveform, its not because we hit the switch too late… even if its too late the waveform have to be complete, its not the case…

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13

I can confirm what mdb states. I also have another looper that quantitizes and audio is spot on. Right now there is often a gap at the beginning of the loop, the recording of which is spot on as that is the initial recording spot. i.e. not at the end of the loop or an additional space added at the end of the loop.

14

I think I “solved” this. I was testing again with my other looper and Aeros. It is just clear that Aeros has this problem but I think I know now at least part of the problem. Aeros seems to start recording when you LIFT up the button (I got the idea from another topic) and other loopers (like they should!) start recording when you HIT the button. Try yourself doing few recordings with Aeros so that you release the pedal being sloppy and then hitting it like it was a hot plate, you’ll see a clear difference (while of course hitting it on the right moment on both cases). Is this really true?

15

Probably, that’s how other loopers implement multifunction buttons. It’s how it would know the difference between a quick press and a long hold. If I remember correctly, the Trio+ and several other loopers were implemented this way.

16

That is true and a good point! However that also makes recording “on the beat” virtually impossible since at least I my brain is not able to figure out how to lift the switch on beat. Still Boss RC-3 has the same multifunction features (well not mute but overdub and undo/redo with long press) and they have been able to implement it.

17

@DavidPackouz is this in the roadmap? I mean all buttons working when pressed down and not on release?

18

@rookie the record button should be on the down press when recording a new track – the only thing that is on the release is when there is a hold command available, which is in two cases: when you’re going to do an overdub, or if you completely undo a track and are going to record a new track (because you can redo the undone track).

The other button that is triggered on release is the Play All button, because that has the hold command to clear the song – we do plan to make a setting to have this on the down press, because we realize that Play All can be important to have precise timing on, however this will come at the cost of giving up the clear song with the hold command.

If you see something that you think should be on the down press, but seems to be on the release, please make a quick video and post it here or send it to me directly.

19

Wow, only the initial record of a track has precise timing in button down … and overdubs and re-recording a track use the less precise button up?

That’s pretty inconsistent for variations of “record”. This is something that goes into muscle memory for the timing to be perfect; if that changes based upon the type of “record”, that’s a huge miss.

I hope you go back to the basics and figure a way to address this. I suspect you can fix this either by:

  • Rethinking the entire use of buttons and scroll wheel across the unit. Lot’s more can be done with the hardware if you’re willing to go back to square one. Scary in lots of ways, eh?
  • Allow actions on down to work immediately even with hold/double tap. This means that the “down” action (any type of record), starts immediately. The tricky part is to make the hold/double tap override/undo the down action as if it never happened. For example, on down it starts overdub, but when the hold is detected, the overdub is thrown away before it had any lasting effect. This is not a one size fits all solution; it requires some compatibly between the primary and secondary actions (and might require custom work for each combination). Think of this as some form of internal quick undo for the primary action until you are beyond the time where a secondary action can occur. It can work for anything that is undoable (e.g., most things that don’t result in an immediate sound being play that’s not coming directly from the instrument). This won’t fix “play all” because you can’t undo the sound that’s played (and you have a good idea on the user preference for that). But it should work for overdub an re-record which are more critical.
  • Perhaps the secondary actions can be put on something like pressing two buttons at the same time. Not sure that can happen within the debounce time for a button down.

I think this is critical to get solid and consistent for record, overdub, and re-record. For some users, it’s less important the more you can lead the action that really starts on the next measure. I do think we need both overdubs that start immediately and overdubs that are tied to the next measure. That’s another battle. :love_you_gesture:

Wow that’s a mouthful and probably not intelligible. Pretty sure this is fixable; might take a few failed prototypes to figure out the best approach. Feel free to pm me to get into the details. I recognize this is easier to say than do.

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20

As I mentioned in the other thread, overdubs don’t need to be done on the down press because you don’t have to start the overdub precisely at an exact time, you can start it a bit earlier and start playing when you’re ready.

With re-record, in quantized mode, it will trigger recording at the end of the measure, so it doesn’t need to be on the downpress. This will be an issue for non-quantized mode, but re-recording is an unusual corner case and it’s either that or give up the ability to redo. There’s only so much functionality you can cram into four buttons while keeping it simple (trying to avoid two buttons at the same time here).

Another option will be to use an external midi foot controller (like the MIDI Maestro) to have every function on the down press. MIDI responsiveness is the next thing we’re working on after this upcoming release.

21

That’s a great argument, but it’s not always true, right?

Perhaps, overdubs “don’t need to be done on the downpress” because of how you play overdubs. What happens if I want to get into the groove and start playing a prelude before I want the overdub to kick in and record? I don’t want that prelude to be part of the overdub, but that prelude is important to how I play. Then the timing of the overdub really matters, right?

I suspect this works and is second nature for you as-is, because the Aeros is built exactly for the way you use it (and have envisioned it). It’s OK to make a design decision that Aeros users do overdubs the DP way.

I think you’re hearing from other musicians that are getting tripped up by this. Part of the issue is that overdubs act different than the original recording in unexpected ways; easy to understand now that you’ve explained it, but it is an unexpected surprise. Over time we will figure out the DP way, but that doesn’t make it intuitive or easy for us.

Pontification: I like UI’s that behave consistently. Actions occur consistently at the start of the next measure, actions occur consistently on button down, etc. I like a UI that allows me to change the mode that redefines what is consistent (freeform mode has no notion of measure, it aligns with the start of loop) … and advanced options that let me opt out of consistency that give a power user flexibility, control, and complexity.

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