Aeros MIDI Implementation Scope

Aeros Loop Studio Feature Requests
1

Hey there all Aeros users,

We are very close to a great MIDI release for everyone but we have come to a point when we need to make a decision on how MIDI mapping on the Aeros will work. Currently, and in our planning, we have been loading individual CC commands with various values that each do different things.

For example:
Mute/Unmute CC:38

Value 1-6: Mutes/Unmutes track (track # = value #)
Value 0: Mutes all tracks
Value 11: Mute Track 1
Value 12: Mute Track 2
Value 13: Mute Track 3
Value 14: Mute Track 4
Value 15: Mute Track 5
Value 16: Mute Track 6
Value 21: Unmute Track 1
Value 22: Unmute Track 2
Value 23: Unmute Track 3
Value 24: Unmute Track 4
Value 25: Unmute Track 5
Value 26: Unmute Track 6
Value 31: Mute Track 1 at EOL
Value 32: Mute Track 2 at EOL
Value 33: Mute Track 3 at EOL
Value 34: Mute Track 4 at EOL
Value 35: Mute Track 5 at EOL
Value 36: Mute Track 6 at EOL
Etcā€¦

We planned this with our own MIDI controller, the MIDI Maestro, in mind.

We have recently seen, however, that some users prefer that we change the road we are on and specify one CC number per action. Then, the same command should create the opposite behavior when receiving value 0.

For example:
CC:38 value 1-127 Mute Track 1
CC:38 value 0 Unmute Track 1
CC:39 Value 1-127 Solo Track 1
CC:39 Value 0 UnSolo

We wanted to open this up for discussion because, in the end, we are doing this all for you.

We believe our current route and the planning we are doing for it is allowing for (literally) an exponential amount of control over the Looper with less use of CC commands, but this requires a MIDI control system that is more selective and customizable than most MIDI keyboard commands, for example. That being said, if this is going to ruin the experience for a large percentage of users we want to know, and adapt as best as we can.

Please choose the option that works best for you:

MIDI Expansion: Batched or Specific CCs
  • Several behaviors per CC command
  • One behavior for value 1-127 and the opposite for value 0

0 voters

Please feel free to tell us how wrong/right we are, respectfully of course!

Some really useful information would also be the names of the devices youā€™re using to control your Aeros and any info you can give on what could potentially ruin/improve the workflow you have.

Thanks all!

2

With one CC for each track and task, I do feel like there is a good chance you may run out of CC space. Look at your 1 example alone, breaking that all out across CCs already uses up 13 controllers (assuming CC:38 remains as it is today), and this is probably just the tip of the iceberg.

The last thing you want to do is refactor it again once everyone has their gear programmed. Personally, I wonā€™t worry about it either way as any controller I use can adapt fine to both ways, but I do honestly think the Aeros is at the level of complexity that it is a better fit for more programmable controllers and should endeavor to waste less addressable space at every turn.

6 Likes
3

I use morningstar MC8ā€¦ and Iā€™m willing to bet majority of people use MC3, MC6 or MC8 for midi controlled stuff. It would probably be a good idea to get one of those in the shop to play with while working on midi expansion.

4 Likes
4

I agree with RockDebris: donā€™t waste CCā€™s. Any modern controller hardware or software should be able to deal with either situation. (Edit: I CHANGE MY MIND LATER.)

4 Likes
5

Are you all voting properly? The comments are all the opposite to the votes.

6

No, I donā€™t think so. The comments so far are all for using up fewer CC commands, which is what I think the first option in the poll is.

1 Like
7

I voted several behaviors per CC command.

8

Agreed to Brockstarā€™s first post on this thread.

1 Like
9

Yup, donā€™t waste ccā€™s.

With your several per CC you have a max of 10 tracks ā€¦ and 11 types of settings per CC (the 12th type can only control 7 settings).

Suggestion: Instead of starting at 1 (or 11, 21, etc), start at 0 (10, 20, etc). and move Mute all tracks to value 127. Then you can call them track 0, track 1, etc. This avoids have Mute Track1 on CC 11 and Mute Track 10 on CC 20. Very confusing (and inconsistent) to use zero based numbers in one place and oneā€™s based numbers in another.

2 Likes
10

Tangent: donā€™t forget to add midi messages to support emulating the four buttons and wheel. Additionally add a message that can reset the UI to a known state. With that in place one could program a midi macro to do pretty much anything just by counting clicks then reproducing that with a midi controller. Itā€™s a last resort, but itā€™s a fallback for anything you forget to implement.

Similarly: donā€™t forget to make all the song settings selectable over MIDI. A huge part of MIDI control is so that when we pick a song on our tablets, that all the equipment gets configured for that song. You seem to be only talking about the live controls, which worries me a little.

5 Likes
11

Oh I see, I got the poll backwards. I thought that ā€˜Valueā€™ was a new CC command.

Changing CC to whatever you want is the best optionā€¦ the Yamaha Genos uses that method.

12

Unfortunately, I donā€™t know enough about midi to vote on the CC issue. But I want to echo kingofthejaffacakes to be able to choose a song template on the Aeros via midi.

1 Like
13

Just to echo Kingofthejaffacakes comment. You seem to be only talking about the live controlsā€¦ midi song selection is the first thing I would like to do in a live situation. I have 16 shows between june 17th and june 24th (2 per day) and will use the aeros on just a few songs as it takes too much time to fiddle through the song list manually . Midi song selection Please make it happen.

2 Likes
14

I use Behringer FCB1010 with UNO2 firmware.
Hope that we get midi control soon :crossed_fingers: :crossed_fingers: :crossed_fingers:

1 Like
15

I suspect fewer CCs with value-as-function is probably best, overall.
However, there are still some functions which will need separate CC per function so that a useful value can be sent.
E.g. CC X Value Y = ā€œSet track Z volume to Y.ā€

1 Like
16

if itā€™s not too late, I vote for whichever option works best with the MM, allowing for future improvements and getting midi song selection, song templates, silent delete working ASAPā€¦ i think this is the ā€œseveral behaviors per cc commandā€, but Iā€™m not tech savvy enough to answer this confidentlyā€¦ just need it to work easily/ and hands free during performance. Midi song selection is really essential for performance

17

I am really hoping to use my Octatrack to automate the Aeros, and with the proposed number of CC messages, Iā€™m afraid thatā€™s going to make it difficult. Rather than CC, I was hoping there might be an implementation that uses NOTES for DISCRETE actions, like play, stop, mute, etc for each track and then CC messages for operations that have a value range, like volume, etc.

I mentioned this before, but I believe Elektronā€™s implementation is very good and friendly to MIDI controllers of all types. You can check out the Octatrack manual here.

Having operations on notes would make automating the Aeros very simple. Furthermore, if there were, say, a set of operations per OCTAVE that correlated to operations per TRACK, then youā€™d have a very easy and fun way to operate the Aeros from any standard keyboard rather than requiring a MIDI controller that is programmed.

One problem I see with CC for my use, is the Octratrack limits the number of CCs you can control per track on the Octratrack (to 10), so Iā€™d quickly run out of usable CC slots unless I start piling on more tracks.

The second problem is using the rotary encoders to dial in the appropriate CC would trigger all sorts of functions, resulting in an Aeros that is in a random state. The only way to effectively automate the Aeros would be to dial in the exact values, which would require a keypad or editor, which most MIDI controllers lack.

I would challenge the Aeros team to strive to make it possible to control from any reasonable keyboard or controller without needing to be a programmer or requiring a sophisticated MIDI controller. Think about how Ableton allows you to assign a MIDI note to virtually any function. I donā€™t think youā€™d see many people assign CC values to Ableton functions unless it is a range, like filter frequencey, etc. For example, track volume in Aeros would make sense as a CC.

Please consider this! There is so much potential! Thank you!

18

Iā€™ll most likely be using the Kieth McMillan Soft Step 2. Possibly the QuNeo or the K mix. I believe all of his stuff is pretty customizable. I also may use empress zoia, which is also very customizable.

19

That might be better handled as two seperate midi command:

  • Select Track Z
  • Set Volume of Selected track to Y

Combining both Track and Volume value into a single CC command limits the range of the volume and leads to some complicated message construction.

I suspect most midi controllers (or their users) will have a hard time creating a message to control tracksā€™s volume via an expression pedal.

20

Hello, while I voted for several commands per CC via range, your example of ā€œMute/Unmuteā€ might be the one exception.
What might be a more economic use of CCā€™s, would be to combine ā€œMute/Unmuteā€ with track volume control. For example: a value of ā€œ0ā€ is muted, a value of ā€œ127ā€ is full volume and unity on your track could be a value of ā€œ100ā€.
If you were to use a foot switch, you could designate on/off states of value 0/100. If you were to use an expression pedal, you would have variable control of the loop signal from off to unity, to boosted.