I would think implementing Program Change messages to pull up “songs” (to be used as basic states of the looper and settings, regardless of audio content) would be the logical use.
That’s how the Electrix Repeater worked in the early 2000’s and how the Boss loopers operate.
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That would make it hard to unmute a track that’s at some unknown volume. I like the idea though.
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I’m guessing the poll will depend on the way people use the Aeros. Simplicity is the key for me but I don’t know enough to be able to make a decision. I’ll rely on the experienced users to know what’s best.
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I understand why people will want to minimize the use of CCs. But having multiple actions on CCs will render the most midi controllers that are in the field useless.
Buttons on Controllers typically send a value (this is often customizable) for on, and a 0 for off (which is not customizable).
Please look at how your midi controllers work before voting. And if you don’t plan on using a controller, don’t vote.
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I guess you wanted to hear specifically about controllers being used. These are all of the ones I have owned and used extensively for gigging.
These are the ones that market themselves as being programmable that must rely on 0 = OFF and 127 = ON for Instant Access switching (boolean states), for which stacking up multiple commands on a single CC would not map well:
Peak FCB4N2
Rocktron MIDI Mate
And this is the list of the ones I’ve used that have the flexibility to work with any sort of mapping:
Peak FCB4X
Fractal Audio MFC-101
Liquid Foot LF+ 12
Liquid Foot+ Junior+
Morningstar MC-6
Morningstar MC-3
IMO, Aeros is not the kind of device that would be very satisfactory if paired with a controller that was not at least flexible enough to customize how ON/OFF states work. More than just the question of this one thing, there are still matters like how a controller handles pages of footswitches, loading default states, mutually exclusive switch groups, setting states across multiple switches from within 1 switch and giving an accurate picture of current state through visual feedback.
IME, the first two controllers on my list would fail for me overall with a device like Aeros even if the CCs were spread out as individual booleans that they could use, because successful control over Aeros would require more flexibility in almost every other area.
That being said, as long as you don’t run out of CC space and force me to refactor when future releases come out, it matters little to me. Every controller I use can work either way.
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Soft Step II
G Labs GSC-4
I have the MM so I put my trust in you to do what is required.
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I think I finally understand Batch’s point. I always think of a midi controller as a board on the floor or an app, but tons of musicians, producers, etc. use desktop or keyboard controllers that have the 0/127 limitation on buttons.
The buttons on my Akai MPK225 keyboard controller can only be assigned a CC# (with values automatically set to 0 or 127), or a note value. But a button can’t send a CC with a value that is not 0 or 127. If I want to use a button to toggle mute on track 5 of the Aeros, for instance, I am out of luck if I have to send a value that is not 0 or 127, and buttons on my Akai (insert probably any model) are useless for controlling the Aeros.
So I now think binary or single-value midi parameters should have their own CC. And it follows that range values (or at least values with large ranges) will probably also need their own CCs.
I strongly recommend that the Aeros be able to provide unique CCs with 0/127 for toggle actions, at the very least. Otherwise, the Aeros will be much more difficult to control by a massive number of keyboard/desktop midi controllers.
I’ll chime back in and say the concerns that I am hearing on controllers not being able to handle a compact CC scheme (which I share) would probably be alleviated by offering NOTES for actions like record, play, mute, etc.
However, no reason you couldn’t offer BOTH - a very convenient CC schema for highly sophisticated MIDI controllers and redundant operations laid out on octaves of notes, one octave per track. Having both your cake and eating it too!
This would please both those wanting to program their MIDI controllers for footswitch operation (use case 1), as well as folks like myself who want a traveling Ableton looper setup, with pre-sequenced record, playback, and mute triggers in their MIDI tracks (use case 2). I mean, imagine it! 
I’ll also mention that Octatrack offers in fact 2 different MIDI implementations and they let the users select the one they want to use based on their use case - perhaps they ran across the same question?
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I was leaning towards the more compact option, but the more I think about it I agree it would be great if both schemes could be implemented and let users select one. Better yet allow remapping within Aeros (or even just from a file if you don’t want to implement UI) to any scheme – if all the functionality is there it’s just a mapping layer.
Appreciate this seems reasonable and if it’s possible to do both, then great, I’m all in.
But consider this - with multiple actions per CC SOME controllers will work whereas with one action per CC ALL controllers will work.
The controller I want to be able to use is the Befaco VCMC which is a Eurorack module. This would enable seamless integration with Eurorack and other synths.
But the Apogee Gio would also be usable with one action per CC.
Publish a fully functional VST plugin meant for DAW based automation. Then do whatever you feel is best to accomplish this under the hood.
I voted for the second choice because I’m an Elektron user and that’s the only way that it can play with aeros.
Most midi footswitch supports both ways. But the second mapping way allows more midi equipment(for example Midi Keyboard with knops) to control aeros and provides the possible playing with a Dawless system.
If it finally uses the first map, I think this update will help “everyone” but not the users like me…So at least give us an option in the setting page to switch between two mapping ways. This is the best way and I think it’s not hard to program…
It’s a great improvement anyway. Thank you guys work.
I use a mc8. I also use band helper to select songs on the Beat Buddy The most pressing request for me is the ability to select from band helper a song loop on the Aeros along with the song on the Beat Buddy.
I voted a single behavior per CC, but that’s not really as important in my case as being consistent with the BeatBuddy’s MIDI implementation since I intend to use both units in tandem. I control my BeatBuddy via MIDI with my Helix Floor modeler. When I select a Helix preset (which represents a given song) the Helix automatically signals the BB to load the appropriate drum track. As the song progresses I change the Helix signal chain to reflect the sound I want for that part of the song (verse, chorus, bridge, ending, etc). I would hope your implementation would be such that the BB could signal the Aeros appropriately to load songs, start, play and mute appropriate tracks that should play along with the selected drum function.
IMHO, SS should spend a few hours mapping out all the potential midi needs of the Aeros for the long term and reserve some “design” space for all those features you might add in the future. Better now than when you are blocked from adding features later on.
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I’m coming back and looking at this, and it just occurred to me … the model implies abilities that I didn’t know even existed today.
I’ll give you an example. If I program a single Button to do all this:
cc:38
11: Mute Track 1
32: Mute Track 2 at EOL
(guessing) 43: UnMute Track 3 at EOL
(guessing 54: Mute Track 4 at EOM
Can the system really manage those commands across multiple tracks for various immediate and deferred mute states? If not, is there a plan to make that happen as well? (which would be awesome!). And if not, I can see this pattern being misleading, suggesting abilities that do not actually work (muting is just a small example of the pattern)
That fact that you are telegraphing the ability to Mute any track with any sort of Mute timing, independent of each other, is exciting and I don’t want to get my hopes up.
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Personally, with so many tracks, I think it is best to get the most out of each CC. Sorry to hear it might not work well for some controllers, but doing otherwise, you will create an inherent limitation for controlling Aeros.
You will already eat up 6 CC’s (I assume), with Volume 0-127 for each track. There are probably some other functions like volume better suited to one CC.
Another option might be the approach of programming software to allow people to customize Aeros to their liking. I use Loopy HD on the iPad, and I set it up the way I want. For Loopy though, you get one CC per command, and I can tell you, you do burn through them fast, so if you try to create more customization (for example: Mute track 1 then record track 2), you can have amazing control but start to realize you have to make some choices.
Honestly, as much as it may suck for some, this is a new Looper that has great potential. Consider a new Midi controller to unlock that potential.
Otherwise perhaps you offer a separate download option for those who prefer the one CC idea. But you will have an endless deluge of complaints because some will be unhappy with the compromises you made. Everyone uses loopers differently.
I hope this comes out soon. I was just looking at a Looperlative looper purchase and selling the Aeros out of frustration because of the MIDI situation. Is there a time line for release???
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I feel you and many others are doing the same including me out of frustration. I traded my aeros looper in last week out of being fed up with it and the lack of things and after having it for 6 months for 2 other pedals and now using the poly effects beebo new loopler now. Got it mapped out via midi to my mc8 in no time and working great.
As for the midi update, i hear the next firmware will do with more memory fixes AGAIN and very little midi stuff and then the other one after this is supposed to be the rest of it or so they say. So don’t expect all midi stuff to happen for several months more or less with the way things are going.
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