Midi Maestro and a Midi patchbay merger

Midi Maestro
#1

Any issues with using a MM with a midi pacthbay/merger? I just purchased a MM but after spending time on this forum I’m not convinced I’m ready to go down the road of trying to use it to control other midi devices/pedals simultaneously, at least not yet in its current state of development and given what I read here about the IOS app in its current state. Anyway I also purchased a Morningstar MC6 MK II to control the other devices in my MIDI setup and plan on using a midi merger to connect both the MC6 and the Mideo Mestro to a merger/patchbay. Setup this way the hope is I can just use the Midi Maestro to do the floor pedal basics it does by default to control the Areos and beat buddy and use the MC6 to send program change messages, etc. to all of the midi pedals which I have connected to the patchbay.
Has anyone tried this type of configuration and if so is their any reason the Midi Maestro would not work this way to strictly do its thing with the Aero’s and beat buddy but also be capable of receiving overall program/preset/song change messages from a midi pedal controller device like a morning star MC6.

I have been doing this kind of midi merging for years with multiple controller devices so I would not expect their to be an issue but I don’t want to make any assumptions with the Midi Maestro. Hopefully in the near future and after becoming more familiar with the MM I may be able to just completely rely on it as a sole controller and i can remove the MC6 from the setup but for now I’m going to try and see if it will play nice with the other controller.

#2

Since the IOS application has no yet progressed to a usable state for me, I can only give you my impressions based upon the use cases I have experienced. Others with more experience using the Android app may correct or amplify the comments I am about to make. I found the MM to be a capable controller for the BB out of the box, although the “accent hit” function varied from the original BB function. To get BB accent hits as programmed in a song, the extension foot pedal was still required.

As delivered, the MM had a BB and an Aeros “mode.” Both were on Midi channel one, which to me implied the pedal could only be used for one or the other at a given time. Since then, the Android app has allowed programming of the “custom” or User mode, so commands can be sent on different channels. However, as far as I know, there is not yet a midi mode change, or a foot programmable mode change available. You could, again AFAIK, have a custom mode that had both Areos and BB commands on separate channels, but I have not been able to experience this.

I see no reason why the MM and MC6 could not be combined through a merged box to use, for example, the preprogrammed BB mode with the MM, as well as additional BB commands from the MC6. But, when I see your question posed as, in effect, “can I just use the Midi Maestro to do the floor pedal basics it does by default to control the Aeros and beat buddy,” I don’t think you can. It could do one or the other, and, in that regard, I have not experimented with MM and Aeros alone, as the MM did not work with the Aeros “out of the box.” Those functions have been added to the Aeros. Again both sets of default functions were on channel 1, with no way to change the default channel. But, you may be able to work around this if you have access to an Android device and want to develop a copy of the Aeros mode in custom mode. Since you’ve already purchased the MM, that may be your better alternative.

#3

Don’t know if this adds anything to the discussion, but…

I have a previous-gen Morningstar MC-6, used it after the BB (not the MM), and I can tell you that I had issues with it double-clutching (repeating the THRU signal after passing it) a fair bit, so some sort of merger might resolve that. It also may be an issue that’s been resolved.

FWIW I still like my MC-6 and still have it, but it’s too small for my clumsy feet.

#4

First thanks for your thoughtful explanation from real world use. That’s exactly the kind of information I am seeking. So it sounds like what you may be saying is (I may be getting this wrong) the MM as of now can send commands to the Beatbuddy or the Aeros which then passes its own midi command information on to the other device depending on how you have configured the two, but it cant treat each as a independent midi receiving device on an independent channel at least not in its default mode. So connecting the Beat Buddy and Aeros independently to a midi patch bay then to the patchbay to communicate with the MM rather than the way its done when you only have the BB and a Aeros, by daisy chaining them with the breakout cable is not really possible. And the reason for this is because MM is pretty much tied up just speaking to one or the other in its default mode (because of its single default midi channel 1 setting) and only maintains the relationship of the direct midi master/slave connection between the BB and the Aeros as it previously exited before you have a MM .

What I want to be do is just be able to send program change messages with the Morningstar to all my midi devices (4 effects pedals and the BB & Aeros) even if that would really mean sending a message to the Aeros to load a song which just relays the preset/song change information to the Beat Buddy. I was hoping i could do it this way:

Midi Maestro> into input 1 of Midi Merger/patch bay
Morningstar MC6 > into input 2 of Midi Merger/patch bay

Pedal 1-4 hooked to midi inputs 1-4 of Midi Merger/patch bay and receives program change commands solely from the MC6 with no reliance on the MM for this or any other function.

Aeros hooked to midi input 5 to receive midi controller messages for the MM and respond to overall preset/song change change message from the MC6

Beatbuddy hooked to midi input 6 to receive midi controller messages for the MM and respond to overall preset/song change change message from the MC6.

Again the ideas here is pretty simple I just want to program the MC6 to send a pre-programed (lets say we call it "song #1) change message to every single device to load the correct preset for song #1 on each device. All i need the Aero’s and beatbuddy to do is load the correct song nothing else. Anything else I ask the Aeros/Beat Buddy to do like using a MM foot switch to change song parts would come from default functions of the MM as if the MC6 did not even exist. So in order to do that I think what I hear you saying is I would need to leave the beat buddy directly connected to the Aeros and not connect each independently to a patch bay and connect the two in a daisy chain manner via the break out cable to the MM. Am i missing something else? Is the MM not capable of controlling both the BB and MM at the same time in one of its default modes? If that’s the case then it would be really nothing more than a expanded footswitch to me only useable by one, either the beat buddy or the Aeros at a time in which case for my needs its not worth the cost and Ill likely be retuning it.

midi pacth bay 2 Midi patch bay

#5

I think you are getting the point and seeing the limitations. In its default configuration the MM cannot control both a BB and and Aeros without making manual adjustments. For the type of application you are explaining it would seem to me that you would be better served with 2 MC6 pedals if you need to have twelve control switches available. Of course, you’ll need to program the MC6 pedals to suit your needs, but that goes with the territory with the MC6. The MM is a great BB controller on channel 1. But as an IOS user is very limited for much else.

#6

Just wanted to say, the new 2.0 MM app for iOS and Android will allow changing of the default mode channel, this is one of many fixes which we can hopefully be public about very soon! The design is done now they are just creating the code around it which Dev seems hopeful is going to be pretty smooth.

Biggest difference is this software has the same designer as the Aeros and we spent a good deal of time making sure the redesign would handle many things much more fluidly than the current iterations, especially with the writing of channels throughout the app.

We understand the frustration and we are there with you we want this out! Hoping in the next week or two I can give you more details.

Current iOS (1.x.x) will be at a much closer point to Android soon, making it far more usable as well

1 Like
#7

That will be very helpful. I hope you understand I wasn’t b****ing here, just explaining the current state of things. Will there be a command that allows mode changes?

#8

That’s a cool idea, I don’t know of any controllability of the MM itself with a controller but I can ask what the specs of that are, perhaps all it would need is a firmware change

#9

Also, please don’t curse! I edited only that from your post, thank you :slight_smile:

#10

My apology. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

#11

Any info you can share on the topic is appreciated and helpful thanks.

#12

Thanks again Phill.

#13

Im going to let this topic rest on my end until i get both the MM and the MC6 MII here. At that point i probably will want to reengage with you for advice and suggestions concerning basic configuration of the MM. Both are on order. MM is backordered however so I’m not sure how long before it shows up. Perhaps the new IOS app will be available by then. Potential work arounds, best configurations, limitations, etc. generally make more sense to me when i have my hands on the hardware at which time i can call on you guys for specific real application questions
Thanks for your help at this preinstallation point in my experience with the MM.

#14

Hey again,

Sure definitely ask me whatever, whenever

We should have a better iOs app in general soon! It will be a lot closer to what Android app currently offers feature wise.

#15

I use a patchbay with the MM and it works fine. It depends on your routing I guess.

I have configured/programmed the MM using a friends android phone as the IoS app is useless at this point. It controls a GT-pro and a voicelive as well as the BB and Aeros using different modes. But I also control the GT-pro with a Fc-300 foot controller that goes into the midi patchbay as well as the MM. My Mac also feeds into the parchbay so I can also control the midi devices with the Mac.

The patchbay is then programmed with different modes to feed the various midi inputs to the various devices using merge or filtering when necessary.

Midi is powerful but requires a bit of a learning curve. I have been at it for 30 years or so when Midi was first invented as a « language » … it may take time for you to configure everything correctly but it does work and the Singular Sound units work well when integrated with the rest.

#16

That is helpful,
Thank you.

#17

Looing forward to checking that out. I guess the Midi Maestro is still back ordered so if you don’t here back from me for a bit that’s the reason. Just want you to know appreciate the help.

On a side note, its interesting to me or perhaps its just my impression how much Midi has reappeared in the last few years as a viable communication tool in the industry once again. Midi over USB seems to have replaced the few areas I still used midi communication anymore such as keyboard connection with a laptop. Back in the day every piece of my gear including lighting was interconnected via midi. I have midi cables that have been in storage for 20 years. Building these pedal boards and the midi implementation in so many of them has me brushing up on my Midi chops once again. ADAT and midi ruled the day when i first got into performing and recording in the 1980s. :slight_smile:

#18

Oooh yes that all rings many bells in my head! :joy::joy::wink:. I also still have meters and meters of midi cables and I have recently brought many of them back into the studio. The MM was a good incentive for this but the BB and Aeros also. Midi did seem to disappear for a while and it seems to be coming back indeed. I think also that many companies continued to use midi in their devices but did not really expect their users to configure/program much in midi. Singular Sound have certainly bought this all back but they really need to be up to par with the software (BB Manager, and the MM app, the Android version is ok and useable but the IOS version is not). Neither version really export setups well so users can share efficiently We have had promisses that this is all on the way and SS have been quite good with updates. So I keep my hope and faith up! :blush:

As you seem to have good midi experience, you should really enjoy your MM. I do!