Some structure please

Hi folks,

I admit I’m new here.
However, I have seen forums before.
Thus I wonder: Why does this one need to be so cluttered?
I understand much info got lost on a server move, but would this move not have been a good opportunity to I.e. set an option to sort content or posts by name or to add band tags?

It’s pretty impossible to find anything here and if you do the songs for the drums or the drums for the songs or the midis for the song etc. Are missing or simply somewhere where no one expects them.

How about naming conventions on song posts [file type]-[band name]-[song-name]-[bpm]-[royalty yes/no] ? Or an upload mask that already tags right in always the same format?

I am lost.

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I guess any of us can start a forum that is not so cluttered. Unless Singular Sound would have an issue with that and I doubt that as it will draw more attention to their products. Feel free to do this and share the address with the rest of us so we can experience your less cluttered forum. I promise to join and visit. Maybe even comment. And I will not criticize your forum with my first post. I would not want to come across as a pretentious person. On a more serious note… less than a year with my BB. I now grab midi files on-line, add parts to the midis and other things through BEATBUILDER software that I searched and found here and load them onto my BB through BB Manager software that I found here by searching. I really considered myself a novice at any drum machine before I purchased the BB. Now my friends are amazed at what I can do and have done. All of it learned here by being patient and asking non-pretentious questions. Good luck!

Thanks for your answer jefgil6
It is nice to see that you are patriotic about this forum.
I have learned the first rule of being patriotic is having a notion of aiding improvement. Some have this notion after years joining a group, others are a bit faster due to experiences or creativity.

This said my post was meant as question and inspiration to visit the thought ‘why are things the way they are?’
Such questions can trigger advances. And : It was not at least the marketing offering of a usable user forum with great additional content from SS that made me just purchase the BeatBuddy. I think that -even if things can sometimes go wrong in an IT move- it is always the way a unit recovers from disaster that shows greatness.

So yes: if I had time I would make my own forum, maybe. But this would really defy the purpose of my recent purchase and thus I don’t think should be the answer to my callout, which definitely was all in good spirit

Welcome, bandyman and thanks for taking a moment or two to comment. I’m guessing you’re used to forums such as The Gear Page and other similar communities? :grinning:

Agreed. The appearance and organization of the forum leaves a lot to be desired. However, that probably has less to do with the migration and more with the choice of forum software. The old forum was xenForo-based (TGP, Les Paul, TDPRI and etc which seems to be the choice for many online communities) however, it was probably expensive to update and maintain. Singular Sound opted to use Discourse. In hindsight, they probably could have done a much better job setting up the framework for this forum—especially laying it out with an eye toward the future products they intended to release.

On top of the software engine, there are no guidelines that dictate any format on how users are to organize and post resources and even if there were, users would probably not follow them. :smirk:

The best thing I can offer is to choose how you want to see the forum when you’re online. You can set it up so your landing page is any of the categories or sub-categories. I keep it simple by bookmarking and using as I like to read all of the comments. If you’re looking for just the latest songs being posted, then you might prefer

There’s enough flexibility in Discourse so that once you become a little more comfortable with it’s idiosyncrasies, you’ll be able to quickly find what you’re looking for and especially once you get the hang of using the Search function. I like your suggestion to make better use of the tags. Search using Xmas and it illustrates what you’re proposing.

Maybe this hyperlink will help you: resources

Anyway, have fun on the forum and if there’s something you need help with but couldn’t find after searching, post your questions and somebody will chime in.

There are 30 categories in this forum. Do I think it’s great? No. But, if you take the time to select a category and then search within the category, you can find a great deal of “stuff.” One quirk is that most of the good “stuff” is the area called Resources. Most finished songs and user created drum kits get posted to Resources. This is a carry over from our old forum where Resources was organized and User created content was less organized.

All that said, to come here as a NOOB and then bitch does no one any good. I’m old and crotchety and I just don’t give a damn anymore. But, there is a lot of good stuff here, and a bunch of good, helpful people here.

Now, get off my lawn and go home!

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Welcome. Good points, though they probably won’t be taken up any time soon. But I hear you. I also like things more organized. But I understand why things are the way they are. So the usual boilerplate: Do the best you can with searches, then ask for help when you need it. People here are quite willing to lend a hand. I’ve gotten plenty of feedback and help with my questions. You’re going to come across a few things that’ll make you tilt your head. Add your 2 cents to any those posts for sure, but I’m pretty sure Singular is aware of the issues. Mostly, anyway. Also, don’t be afraid to reach out to support directly; they are good about getting back to you, usually with some useful feedback/answers. Good luck!

Thank you very much for getting back to me.

I spent quite some time trying to figure out the basics around BB yesterday.
Despite 20 years in IT and dipl in audio engineering I must have expected a quicker access to answers to my main questions. Thus sorry if I sounded a little bit on the frustration end.

I will go through the ressources and hope to find a proper manual about the beatbuddy manager there.
So many questions that seem unanswered right now. Spec. considering that I know my midi in LogicPro and co. .A lot of youtube videos I found only shed a very blurry light.

Also many people in the forum seem to prefer programming a bassline than about the main functionality of BB which in my eyes is the structure-free switching between songparts. Thus a lot of the content seems one-midi-file only approach. Not what I want.

Therefore I hope I can find answers to these questions so I can program myself:

*How long should a main loop/Drum fill / Transition Fil/ outro be to be effective with bb. ?

  • How does bb handle the transition? does it cut the time in the transition off the main loop? does it add it after the main loop? does it add the midi events to the main loop?
  • How does the transiton fill or accent hit handle time signature if I add ony one 1/4 note hit to i.e a 4/4 signature?
  • Does BB fully adhere to the GM channels for the drums? If I wanted to work with a standard DAW like logic, how can I handle the drums most compatible to avoid much re-working?
  • BIG question: Library structures of BB manager: Where do you put which stuff into BB Workspace and why? What happens when you syncronize exactly? etc. Is there a “best practice” ?
  • What sample rate does BB want?
    *How many drumkits are supported actively on the BB before it refuses to see them?

So thanks for any hints on those.
I will start diving into ressources now.


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Start here:

Then, forget everything you know about IT and programming, because the spaghetti like nature of the code in Beat Buddy Manager makes it unfriendly to Users and programmers alike. It is what it is. Until Singular decides to fix it, it is what we have.

I’ll try to address your questions:

Main loops, fills, transitions, intros and outro are midi files. The only real restriction, in my experience, is that they should be made in full measure increments. And, to avoid problems, there should be a note that ends at the very end of the last measure of the part. Typically I address this by dragging a kick drum note to the end of the last measure of the part. One does this to avoid a Beat Buddy quirk which sometimes takes the dead empty space at the end of a midi file and moves it to the beginning of the file, thereby screwing up your timing. A single measure main loop works, but I’d recommend a minimum of two measures. This seems to help the BB deal with the “Cue fill” settings options. Also, since you indicate you would be using Logic to make your midi files, before exporting a midi file, move it to the 1st beat of a track. I’m sure somewhere there is a Logic setting that exports just the selected midi region, but when I forget to move a region to the beginning of a track and then export it, I get whatever number of blank measures were in front of that region added to the export.

Transistions - Transitions start in accordance with the selected “cue fill” setting. This is a setting in the BB pedal. The transistion end when you lift from the transition, and the next part starts at its beginning.

How does it handle - Transitions, see above. Accent hits do not affect the track. The accent hit trigger a separate wav file which plays concurrent with the track.

GM standard - Singular made kits, except for the Latin kits follow GM standards. However, even the Singular kits that follow GM standards do not provide complete mapping of GM drums. This is due to limitation of 100mb of samples per kit. In general, Singular kits do not have the kick drum2 at 35, the 2nd snare at 40, low tom at 41, splash at 55, vibraslap at 58, and Latin pieces from 60 and up. When working with kits, its best to check the mapping of the kit. This can be done via Beat Buddy Manager, by double clicking on the kit name in the Drum sets list, wich opens the Drumset Maker window. You can then scroll up and down to see which pieces are included and where they are mapped. User kits can vary, although most of us try to stay to the GM standard for drums from 35 through 59.

Logic drum kits tend to add pieces below 35. Take note of those and move the drum hits to a supported note.

BIG ANSWER: You don’t. Let BB Manager handle where it puts stuff. If you much about in the BB Workspace you’ll crash it and potentially lost data. You are warned! When you synchronize (and most times on Mac, the option is greyed out) your project file from your BB Workspace is copied to your SD card. Since this is frequently greyed out on Mac, use File>Export Project> to SD card. this process will take several minutes. I run a 12 core Mac Pro dual Xeon with 64GB of RAM, And it often takes 10 minutes or more to finish my export. But, my Project is huge.

Sample rate - 16 or 24 bit at 44.1khz.

Drumkit limit - This is determined by the size of your SD card. I use 32GB class 10 cards. 32GB is the largest card that BB allows. For sake of argument, lets just say I have around 150 drumkits in my project, and over 2000 songs. The BB takes a few moments to boot that up, but its not excessive.


wow Phil_Flood

You flooded me with great info and put a late evening smile on my face :smile:
Great info: Thank you a million!!.
This is worth a million guides - although I found it now and there is some info that is worth the read.

You helped me heeps ! Thank you

Whilst I have you and you are a mac guy (me imac 2019 4 core 16gb etc on catalina)
I just imported a song and drumset for trying things from STAX. When I right click the midi editor BBmanager crashes… Is this expected behaviour ? Seems strange it only happens on this song which additionally plays.

Anyhow… Beat on and thanks again: Great show

I just never use the BB midi editor. I don’t know if that piece of code is Catalina friendly. It was written by a user a few years ago. Some folks just use it to find unsupported notes, I.e. notes that aren’t mapped to a drum. That said, I hadn’t heard of it crashing.

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Not that my opinion means much, but I did not think that bandyman came off like he was ‘bitching’ – more like questioning.


Well, if you notice, I did give him constructive answers to his issues. But, if on your first post, you want to come off like some kind of expert on how this ought to be and then complaint that “it aint’ like that here,” then, yes, I reserve my right to call that bitching.

@Phil_Flood and @jruder please don’t worry about me or how you want to label my comments from your subjective viewpoints. It is your right to have an opinion which might /might not represent someone else’s reality. Do negative labels help communication? Maybe not but that’s for the future to tell and judge.

Let me just say so much: I learned that speaking up and asking questions in an open way (=bitching in floodspeak) is the only way to improve and aid progress. If you ask the right questions they might be answered or thinking about new aspects might start. Being a lamb following the butcher does not improve anything.

To conclude this talk: people who criticise are generally interested. I would love this forum to not waste their energy on discussions about bitching but channel this interest in improvement and partnership.

My questions were all in good spirit, still are and the questions are still not all answered but: hey ! This is a forum :slight_smile: . So let’s speak friendly and improve together.
So what was this again about the songmacher?

Have a good day

Phil, considering I was not in anyway poking you I am not sure why you seemed to take offense.
It was not intended on my part whatsoever, and I apologize if I came across like that.
Tone is a difficult thing to nail down when dealing with just text communication vs verbal or in person.

My comment was related to the initial sarcastic response to a reasonable question by calling him a ‘pretentious person’. And I reserve my right to feel that way still.

Nobody was taking your right away to label whatever you want as bitching, and the information you provided was indeed helpful and I am sure very appreciated.
After all – you are taking your valuable time out to help somebody and that is always a good thing.

Agreed. No problem. And you’re absolutely right. Tone in text is very hard to interpret, and sometimes I take things the wrong way. I get defensive. I’ve spent at least hundreds, maybe a couple thousand, hours developing resources for those of us who use the Beat Buddy and this Forum. As a result, I sometimes overreact when I perceive someone making an attack on the efforts contained herein. You have my apology, and the Forum does as well.