Brian, it’s definitely good to know that you know what you are talking about. It was not like I was picking on you personally, and I am sorry if that may sound as such. My experience is more into developing and (now) leading development of big projects in computer security, data gathering and processing, electronic document systems automation for government and so on. These are usually the projects that are supported for ages (and sometimes even decades) after they were originally developed unlike games (except several specific AAA projects).
That’s probably why our experiences differ so much.
The question here is not whether either you or me is capable of writing an app that would be like a BeatBuddy Manager Software (which I am sure we are, lol). Very often there may be other reasons for such delays. But we will definitely get our manager software soon, I am sure.
True, development of different product types varies, but the management of projects is pretty standard, and we do have to have management on even modest AA and mobile titles these days with 20-40 people…our student projects have up to 16 so management only varies in scale, and product only varies in scope… This is not by any means a complex project, it could be done solo, or with a few people with specific responsibilities to the components of the project.
I didn’t take I personally, just pointing out that I know the 1+1 does not equal 2 rule, when counting time/manpower and the joys of someone else’s codebase, but you pay people to be professional and fast, I dread to think what has been paid for this?
I also am sure it will be here soon, but it seems to have taken 10+ months…that’s extraordinary, Even allowing for design changes and client change requests, we’re still talking about a fairly simple bit of ARM based hardware, controlled via a midi /USB connection system, codebases for which are readily available and frankly a doddle to write. The front end on the PC is a database manager/UI and cc/p2p signal sender/receiver. When I said I could do it in a few weeks I meant that with confidence, and I don’t do a lot of PC code these days.
I would expect someone with more experience of database editors to be cable of producing something even quicker, and then spending some weeks refining and refactoring as design changes impacted the front end allowing it to be ready way before shipping time.
Anway…I don’t mean to sound like a know all dick, just concerned that David and the team may have put their faith in the wrong people.
Have you heard of Beta versions? Why not release what you have up to now (with at BIG disclaimer saying it is a Beta version) and people can start maybe doing some basic editing and playlists. Google and MS (and many other companies) release Beta versions of their products and people report bugs and ideas for improvement.
Or why not even release the project as Open Source? (Unless you are contemplating some financial input from the Manager)
Here’s another idea. If the software isn’t ready by Oct 14 as stated, release a beta. I agree with Brian… this is taking WAY too long. The programming team should have been held to a deadline for a project of this magnitude. And at the very least, a beta version should have been released when the BB shipped.
My DrumBuddy `s got a new T Shirt…
It says:
Your drummer never
comes as only hardware
exists as Beta …he`s allways theAlpha
shows up for more then a few weeks to live gigs
forgets to mention, he`s not included
is unusable for gigs (only after gigs)
goes out of sync …it`s allways you
leaves you unable to arrange your setlists
gives you ability to over-communicate
…and I mean realy, realy never
gives you money back!
I realy understand the huge disappointment, I´m also. I think an evidence that the manager is not included, but comes… would have spared some trouble here… But thats not to modify by now. But aggression makes no sense and so Im still waiting…
A little statement sometimes, what`s going wrong, what has to be fixed, and an honestly assessment when it will come would help for peaceful expectations… thanx 4 reading
I had a really nice laugh when I was reading your post, Dennis. Thanks for sharing!
Delays suck, but if only they could be avoided, I know for sure, David would avoid them. He and his team made a lot of efforts to make this pedal real (and huge props to all the backers here definitely). And it’s totally not like they sit now peacefully reading the forums and resting while enjoying having to listen to all this (partly reasonable) negative feedback. They made an amazing product (I say it because I personally love it) and I’ll say for myself - it’s pretty sad to hear bad things about your own creation.
It is indeed a formidable machine, I received yesterday, just so I could get some sleep since! You did a great job with the pedal, and I 'm sure the software will be up. Do not be discouraged by our impatience ! We are like children waiting for Santa Claus who is late (because it took in a traffic jam).
Played around with it a little bit today. I need the software. I must have the software. It’s like getting a new car without the keys. Very excited about incorporating this once I have the software to control it. Keep working!
I’ve had BeatBuddy for several weeks now, and am still exploring and trying out all the various styles and rhythms and drumsets. The possible sound combinations, with just the internal songs, are immeasurable. Also, it takes a little while to get the toe fully synched up to switch between fills, transitions, accents, etc. I’ve been working through my songlist, trying different beats with them, figuring out the best tempos, and otherwise just practicing at playing and recording while using this incredible pedal!
It’s an amazing machine, and many kudos to the development team. As a software developer myself I understand the ongoing discussion, and it’s certainly embarrassing to be late on a promised delivery. But let’s give these guys a break and not ‘rag’ on them or second guess whatever problems they are still working on. Use this delay to get to really master the peddle, as is. Personally, I’d rather wait and get a smooth working app than suffer the frustration of working around buggy code. I do agree, however, with the suggestion that the development team provide some ‘inside’ info on what specific problems remain, with regular updates as these problems are resolved. Us musical techies would be most impressed with you guys if you took this professional approach!
It is amazing, and next year when we look back on this we will all be chuckling about how stupid we were to be so critical.
But for now, I can’t set up a set list, I can’t remove the intro and outro, I can’t set multiple or specific fill types, I can’t choose the patterns I want in sequence… there’s currently a few too many can’ts which are restricting the power of this awesome beast.
My main reason for supporting the BB, is the flexibility it promises, that is what makes this beast so special, There are dozens of cool drum machines out there, but nothing guitarists can use so easily.
I am surprised there isn’t more editing ability on the pedal itself, unless RAM is very limited, I can’t see that a very basic editor is not possible, but its 1st gen so I hope there will be a firmware upgrade to provide something on a basic level. I always prefer to edit on PC but some pedal based functions should be there. Can anyway suggested a firmware development timeline that might show this at a later date?
So for now I’m limited to using it for jamming and practice, and I really want to create some set stuff and create some new ideas to work with a looping performance.
phhttt…not much we can do…it will be here when its here. Soon I hope.
Come on guys we need the BB manager, even the forum has gone quiet, how long till we get it, love the beatbuddy but need the software to get my use out of it, we need that darn software.
I was told ‘days’ over two weeks ago. We all appreciate that it is difficult to deliver the manager but because your estimation times of completion keep being put back it might lead one to believe that there are greater problems than you are letting us know about? How about a weekly honest update as to what is happening with this manager software? :roll:
I second that: you can probably fit many songs around the default beats and styles available but the real power of the Beatbuddy is the ability to fit the beat, style, tempo etc. to a song and not the other way around.
That said the main problem here is not just that we are still waiting for the software months after the official release date but that we are not given regular updates about it’s supposed imminent release. Having seen the demo version in videos and knowing quite a bit about software development I can’t see where the problem lies unless it is something like a fundamental issue with the overall design. Having seen how clever the BB is in keeping the beat - for example no matter when you introduce a fill or move to another section it still stays with the beat - I can see that some work must have to go into making sure any custom sections and fills are structured correctly: that they have the same tempo, are of the exact length required, can be shortened to smaller versions (in the case of a fill triggered nearer the end of the measure as opposed to nearer the beginning) and that the midi signals included in the sequences somehow match the sounds provided in the .wav file. To me this suggests some pretty complex validation and checking required by the software in order to make sure custom beats work. I am only speculating of course - there could be other issues.
But whatever the issue, why not share it with this community and be upfront about when we can realistically expect to see the software release. And further more be upfront about the Windows vs Mac issue. I will have to wait for the Mac version because that’s what I use and I am not too pleased about the suggestion that it’s release will happen a further month or so after the Windows version. After all everyone knows that a good portion of music processing is done on Macs and the strategy should have been to develop for both Windows and Mac from the outset thus ensuring that both versions were completed and released together.
