Both CC113 and 114 trigger Intro - RC600

I’ve been searching around the forum and the web for a few days now, but I haven’t found an answer to this puzzle. Although I’m using an RC600, it seems others have had similar issues with sending CCs to BB, so perhaps someone using another system might still have some insight.

The BB documentation says that the Intro is triggered by CC114, which works fine. However, if I have another RC600 pedal set to 113, instead of triggering a verse, it retriggers the Intro. I do know that there is supposed to be a Value setting that can trigger Parts 1, 2, 3, etc., but on the RC600, there are only Min/Max settings, which default to 0 / 127. Unfortunately, trying to set these to anything else, such as 2/3, 3/3, in an effort to get it to work by trial and error, doesn’t solve the issue.

I have to say, it doesn’t seem like this should be very complicated. Even though I’m new to Midi and looping, it seems like you should be able to, for example, program an intro with backing tracks that triggers the BB intro and then switch to verses and choruses with backing tracks that trigger the BB song parts. I’ve gotten the backing tracks switching sequence to work on the RC, so I know that’s not a problem. It’s just getting the right BB parts to play.

UPDATE: I got CC113 to kind of work by setting the min / max to 0/2, 0/3, etc., which will play Part 2, Part 3, etc. when I press the assigned RC600 button. However, setting 0/1 doesn’t work to go back to the verse, which is, of course, Part 1 on the BB. I kind of got around this by creating a duplicate verse Part 4. Then by setting min / max to 0/4, it occasionally plays the verse part. Sometimes it just remains on the current part. Wacky!

Thanks for any help!

I’m extremely interested in the answers you get for this question as I went through all the headaches of programming midi in Onsong for my BB, VL3X, and RC-300.

I purchased the RC-600 about a year ago, but haven’t been using it because I’m dreading the midi programming!

So I don’t have a concrete answer for you—just a question: In midi, 0 is the 1st (the 1), so when they say the intro is CC114, does that really mean CC113? Is that why 113 is re-playing the intro?

As Jed51 stated in this thread from 2019, Start song either with or without Intro, you can’t send a CC to start a song on any part other than the intro (or uselessly, an outro, I’ve discovered) Only after an intro plays can you then change between the other parts. That seems to be why the intro plays even if a 113 is sent.

After a few more hours of trial and error investigation last night, I believe I determined one problem might be the way BB handles transitions, which users complained about in another thread, and the way the RC600 pedals sends changes.

By fiddling with different combinations of CTL and Assign on the 600, I got it to the point where if I press a pedal it will send the BB into the transition phase, but it will remain there, playing the same part, until I press it again. However, because of the crazy mappings in the 600, doing that usually entails some unexpected result, such as the 600 starting another track. As I said, there are other users, who are using other midi devices, complaining about the stuck transition phase, so at least we know it’s a BB issue and not only a 600 issue.

Even more maddening is that I’ve discovered that the 600 will send start messages EVEN WHEN ALL THE CC COMMANDS ARE TURNED OFF! I made sure all CTL and Assigns except Pedal 1 Mode 1 were off and that the Assign for Pedal 1 was NOT on CC, but when I pressed it, BB would still start!

As a former tech consultant for many years, I’m extremely methodical and patient when it comes to tech, but I do bristle when basic logic and user experience is ignored when designing expensive products. I find it difficult to believe that no one at Singular thought that musicians might want the flexibility to jump to various parts of a song. True, it might be difficult to do that by just using the pedal, but it should be a fairly simple process through Midi.

I may do a bit more experimenting today, but until Singular chimes in, I’m going to try recording the BB on the 600 as a backing track and then split up the parts on the 600. Not a good solution, because then what’s the point of having the BB other than the drum sounds? You don’t need it after dumping the drum track to the 600. Moreover, if two weeks from now I want to change a beat or two, I’d have to dump it again and probably rerecord backing tracks.

I’ll update the thread if I learn anything new today.